Unclear on current SSE at DVinfo.net

Albert Henson · February 9th, 2006, 01:12 PM

I'm getting a lot of mixed messages from dealers and users of the hd100. Since let's say last month, the dismay of the SSE has certainly subsided. I have heard from other users that the SSE is non-existent in current models of the camera coming off the line. Is this true?

I've heard from my dealer that a new and improved lens is going to remedy the issue to a much greater degree. It won't eliminate the issue, but it will make it tolerable. When that lens will be released with the camera is yet to be determined: if at all.

Or is it that jvc has been able to recalibrate and update the firmware on the thousands of units sold between last august '05, and january '06.

Or are most in the same boat as me, where I have just had to learn to tip toe around the issue, and work around the problem.

I'd like to know what the current status is. If the issue is cleared up, I'd prefer to sell my current unit and buy another from the most current batch-where it would appear that Quality Control could be in better shape.

Anyhow-if anyone has heard anything from an authority on this-I'd like to hear some feedback.

Thanks in advance.

Diogo Athouguia · February 9th, 2006, 02:12 PM

The SSE is not a lens problem, I don't think that a new lens will make it less visible than it is now on current units. I have my camera for 4 months and the spilt is perfectly tolerable. I never saw it on my footage, only under extreme testing situations of low light.

Greg Corke · February 9th, 2006, 02:19 PM

Hi Albert,

Don't know when you bought your unit but JVC did undergo what they called an extensive qc programme for the hd 100. It certainly seems the case that since JVC has done this that the reports of sse have diminished considerably. However, from a lens point of view I can't personally see how a different lens would solve that particular problem. It's primarily, I believe, caused by the fact that JVC decided to split the scanning into two bits thus down the middle. However, they underestimated the difficulty of being able to process the two halves identically thus causing a disparity, this is the cause of sse. With regard to your particular case if I was in your position I would try and speak to sombody at JVC and see if they wont take your unit in for the qc as many believe that during this process they've initiated some kind of firmware update that has allowed the scanning to be done in a way that maintains the integrity of the picture. Good luck with it I certainly wouldn't give up yet if I was you.

All the best Greg C

Earl Thurston · February 9th, 2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Henson

I have heard from other users that the SSE is non-existent in current models of the camera coming off the line. Is this true?...I've heard from my dealer that a new and improved lens is going to remedy the issue to a much greater degree.

It sounds like you've gotten two separate issues mixed up regarding the HD100.

The first issue is SSE, which is caused by the CCDs being scanned in two halfs. Newer cameras seem to have less trouble with SSE now because better adjustments are being made in the firmware. This is irrespective of the lens.

The second issue is the quality of the 16x lens itself, which breathes and has a lot of chromatic abberation. This can only be remedied by making better lenses. The optional 13x wide lens is purportedly much better, but very expensive. So, now there are rumours that some other options are being added to the product line, which should be more affordable.

John Vincent · February 9th, 2006, 07:32 PM

SSE will always be a possibility on the JVC - at least until there is a change in how the camera gets its true progressive image - which JVC is on record as saying it's not going to do... In other words, if you want to make your camera exibit the effect, there are ways to do it (like shooting a plain surface in low light w/ the gain all the way up).

That said - I have a newer model and I have seen no SSE, even in low light. I think that JVC now is much more concerned w/ the SSE issue and that they've - through new firmware (and perhaps a slightly different manufacturing process), and better quality control - pretty much eliminated the SSE effect on newer cameras.

Remember that the camera's only been available for a little more than 6 months, and that the first run of any complicated machine is bound to have problems. The HVX is still working out the kninks I think.

If JVC is guilty of anything, it's that they did not do enough to explain the how/why the SSE happened. I know it kept me from buying the camera for a long time... But I'm glad I did finially get one.

BOTTOM LINE - Buy a new camera from a reliable dealer and I doubt you'll have a problem.

John

PS - Although some of the lens issued seem to exhibit gross chromatic aberation (some have even been reported to have dirt in the lens), my own lens is excellant - the so-called poor quality of the lens has been, IMHO, been VASTLY overstated. For instance, it's a much better lens, IMHO, than the standard issued lens for the Cannon XL1, for instance.

It is a manufacturing defect if the lens exhibits gross chromatic aberation, etc. and is returnable for such a reason.

Tim Dashwood · February 9th, 2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vincent

It is a manufacturing defect if the lens exhibits gross chromatic aberation, etc. and is returnable for such a reason.

The only problem is that "gross CA" would be subject to opinion, since every stock lens will exhibit some amount of CA. I doubt JVC even QCs the lenses when they arrive from Japan.
The 16x lens does not have flourite elements or low-dispersion glass elements like the stock XL2 lens. It is a low-cost lens, but surprisingly sharp.

BTW, I'm finally getting a 13x3.5 tomorrow, so I'll be testing & comparing it ASAP.

Panos Bournias · February 10th, 2006, 12:35 AM

Hi guys. My camera + my M2 adaptor have been stolen a week ago from my office. I had the M2 just for a few days and I managed to test it for a couple of days before my cam got stolen. I ordered a new one with the 13X this time because I' ve noticed that the CA with the use of the M2 and an 55 f 1,2 lense was even more noticeable. In my opinion the stock lens is unusable for serious applications, as elect. cinematography etc. That is why I went through this expence. The 13X will cost me in Jakarta 6.900 US$ that is a good price compaired to 8.200 in Singapore.
I have used the stock lens for coorporate jobs and it was OK, some CA was not noticed by the clients and some other clips with CA were discarted from the projects. Imagine though that you make a movie and you have this purple, blue and red spectrums in all your highlights... As for the SSE, after my cam has been adjusted it was never an issue for us. All the best and be carefull with your gear...! Panos

Jiri Bakala · February 10th, 2006, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panos Bournias

Imagine though that you make a movie and you have this purple, blue and red spectrums in all your highlights...

Sorry to hear about the theft...hopefully everything was insured. As for the CA, yours must have been a really bad lens because I haven't seen it yet on mine, except for one time when testing extreme situations. Good luck with the new gear, if you know how to check the firmware version, I'd love to know what your new camera will be.

Panos Bournias · February 10th, 2006, 12:54 AM

Yes Jiri, I will post the info in about 2 weeks from now. I hope that the 13X will be a really pro lens!?
Panos

Paul Pelalas · February 10th, 2006, 01:58 AM

I was curious as to if there where any filters or type of glass filter that may help with CA from the lens.

Kenn Christenson · February 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM

Your best bet is to avoid shooting at low f-stops. Try to avoid anything below f2.8.

Albert Henson · February 10th, 2006, 03:54 PM

Thank you all for your replies.
Sending the camera back in for upgrades is a little troublesome and I do wish jvc or my dealer would at least foot the bill for the shipping. However they have deemed the firmware updates and recalibration as an optional mode of action. As far as they are concerned the camera is functional as is. I'm concerned about how compnaies don't have to take responsibility for releasing a camera completely finished upon release. It's as if they say. We'll look after the issue if enough people complain with a firmware update-rather than just look after the potential issue in the first place. Anyhow-my disgruntled thoughts aside. I"m glad to hear tha QC has been brought up to snuff and that the issue is being corrected, at least to some degree.
However, I may pawn my camera off and wait til I can afford the alternate lens. My apologies if I have been misunderstood. My dealer states that a better lens will reduce the SSE because of how it will allow light to get to both the left and right sensors in a more efficient manner. I am aware of the electronic architecture of the camera. How does panasonic achieve 1080p without a left and right sensor? If anyone can pass that on to JVC it may help them make improvements in the future.

Stephen L. Noe · February 10th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Henson

How does panasonic achieve 1080p without a left and right sensor?

Interpolation...

Jim Giberti · February 10th, 2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

The only problem is that "gross CA" would be subject to opinion, since every stock lens will exhibit some amount of CA. I doubt JVC even QCs the lenses when they arrive from Japan.
The 16x lens does not have flourite elements or low-dispersion glass elements like the stock XL2 lens. It is a low-cost lens, but surprisingly sharp.

BTW, I'm finally getting a 13x3.5 tomorrow, so I'll be testing & comparing it ASAP.

I'll be interested to hear your real world opinion of the new lens Tim.

Albert Henson · February 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM

What the heck is interpolation? And why isn't it on this camera?

February 9th, 2006, 01:12 PM	#1
Albert Henson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 65	Unclear on current SSE I'm getting a lot of mixed messages from dealers and users of the hd100. Since let's say last month, the dismay of the SSE has certainly subsided. I have heard from other users that the SSE is non-existent in current models of the camera coming off the line. Is this true? I've heard from my dealer that a new and improved lens is going to remedy the issue to a much greater degree. It won't eliminate the issue, but it will make it tolerable. When that lens will be released with the camera is yet to be determined: if at all. Or is it that jvc has been able to recalibrate and update the firmware on the thousands of units sold between last august '05, and january '06. Or are most in the same boat as me, where I have just had to learn to tip toe around the issue, and work around the problem. I'd like to know what the current status is. If the issue is cleared up, I'd prefer to sell my current unit and buy another from the most current batch-where it would appear that Quality Control could be in better shape. Anyhow-if anyone has heard anything from an authority on this-I'd like to hear some feedback. Thanks in advance.

February 9th, 2006, 07:32 PM	#5
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	SSE - Not a problem.... SSE will always be a possibility on the JVC - at least until there is a change in how the camera gets its true progressive image - which JVC is on record as saying it's not going to do... In other words, if you want to make your camera exibit the effect, there are ways to do it (like shooting a plain surface in low light w/ the gain all the way up). That said - I have a newer model and I have seen no SSE, even in low light. I think that JVC now is much more concerned w/ the SSE issue and that they've - through new firmware (and perhaps a slightly different manufacturing process), and better quality control - pretty much eliminated the SSE effect on newer cameras. Remember that the camera's only been available for a little more than 6 months, and that the first run of any complicated machine is bound to have problems. The HVX is still working out the kninks I think. If JVC is guilty of anything, it's that they did not do enough to explain the how/why the SSE happened. I know it kept me from buying the camera for a long time... But I'm glad I did finially get one. BOTTOM LINE - Buy a new camera from a reliable dealer and I doubt you'll have a problem. John PS - Although some of the lens issued seem to exhibit gross chromatic aberation (some have even been reported to have dirt in the lens), my own lens is excellant - the so-called poor quality of the lens has been, IMHO, been VASTLY overstated. For instance, it's a much better lens, IMHO, than the standard issued lens for the Cannon XL1, for instance. It is a manufacturing defect if the lens exhibits gross chromatic aberation, etc. and is returnable for such a reason.

February 10th, 2006, 12:35 AM	#7
Panos Bournias Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 109	CA and unfortunate events Hi guys. My camera + my M2 adaptor have been stolen a week ago from my office. I had the M2 just for a few days and I managed to test it for a couple of days before my cam got stolen. I ordered a new one with the 13X this time because I' ve noticed that the CA with the use of the M2 and an 55 f 1,2 lense was even more noticeable. In my opinion the stock lens is unusable for serious applications, as elect. cinematography etc. That is why I went through this expence. The 13X will cost me in Jakarta 6.900 US$ that is a good price compaired to 8.200 in Singapore. I have used the stock lens for coorporate jobs and it was OK, some CA was not noticed by the clients and some other clips with CA were discarted from the projects. Imagine though that you make a movie and you have this purple, blue and red spectrums in all your highlights... As for the SSE, after my cam has been adjusted it was never an issue for us. All the best and be carefull with your gear...! Panos

February 10th, 2006, 12:54 AM	#9
Panos Bournias Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 109	In 2 weeks Yes Jiri, I will post the info in about 2 weeks from now. I hope that the 13X will be a really pro lens!? Panos

February 10th, 2006, 01:58 AM	#10
Paul Pelalas Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New Jersey USA Posts: 41	Filter fo CA I was curious as to if there where any filters or type of glass filter that may help with CA from the lens.

February 9th, 2006, 02:12 PM	#2
Diogo Athouguia Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 282	The SSE is not a lens problem, I don't think that a new lens will make it less visible than it is now on current units. I have my camera for 4 months and the spilt is perfectly tolerable. I never saw it on my footage, only under extreme testing situations of low light.

February 9th, 2006, 02:19 PM	#3
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Hi Albert, Don't know when you bought your unit but JVC did undergo what they called an extensive qc programme for the hd 100. It certainly seems the case that since JVC has done this that the reports of sse have diminished considerably. However, from a lens point of view I can't personally see how a different lens would solve that particular problem. It's primarily, I believe, caused by the fact that JVC decided to split the scanning into two bits thus down the middle. However, they underestimated the difficulty of being able to process the two halves identically thus causing a disparity, this is the cause of sse. With regard to your particular case if I was in your position I would try and speak to sombody at JVC and see if they wont take your unit in for the qc as many believe that during this process they've initiated some kind of firmware update that has allowed the scanning to be done in a way that maintains the integrity of the picture. Good luck with it I certainly wouldn't give up yet if I was you. All the best Greg C

February 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM	#11
Kenn Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Medford Oregon Posts: 152	Your best bet is to avoid shooting at low f-stops. Try to avoid anything below f2.8.

February 10th, 2006, 03:54 PM	#12
Albert Henson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 65	Thank you all for your replies. Sending the camera back in for upgrades is a little troublesome and I do wish jvc or my dealer would at least foot the bill for the shipping. However they have deemed the firmware updates and recalibration as an optional mode of action. As far as they are concerned the camera is functional as is. I'm concerned about how compnaies don't have to take responsibility for releasing a camera completely finished upon release. It's as if they say. We'll look after the issue if enough people complain with a firmware update-rather than just look after the potential issue in the first place. Anyhow-my disgruntled thoughts aside. I"m glad to hear tha QC has been brought up to snuff and that the issue is being corrected, at least to some degree. However, I may pawn my camera off and wait til I can afford the alternate lens. My apologies if I have been misunderstood. My dealer states that a better lens will reduce the SSE because of how it will allow light to get to both the left and right sensors in a more efficient manner. I am aware of the electronic architecture of the camera. How does panasonic achieve 1080p without a left and right sensor? If anyone can pass that on to JVC it may help them make improvements in the future.

February 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM	#15
Albert Henson Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 65	What the heck is interpolation? And why isn't it on this camera?