Slo-Mo FINAL ANSWER?

Stephen L. Noe · February 7th, 2006, 04:00 PM

Right, the HDV 480p60 mode is an SD mode but scale it to 1280x720 in your NLE and then push it out to HDTV. Amazing quality. I think Michael Pappas took some of my 480p60 stuff and sent it out to a 50" HDTV and could hardly tell the difference (so I hear).

Give it a try. The 480p60 HDV mode is the "hidden gem" on the HD-100. It is very versitile.

Jim Giberti · February 7th, 2006, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Right, the HDV 480p60 mode is an SD mode but scale it to 1280x720 in your NLE and then push it out to HDTV. Amazing quality. I think Michael Pappas took some of my 480p60 stuff and sent it out to a 50" HDTV and could hardly tell the difference (so I hear).

Give it a try. The 480p60 HDV mode is the "hidden gem" on the HD-100. It is very versitile.

Stephen, are you saying (for instance in FCP) create a custom setup capturing 720x480 native DV anamorphic with a 1280x720 timeline?

Greg Corke · February 7th, 2006, 04:17 PM

Okay not so confused now. Thanks Stephen. Words can be so misleading sometimes.

luego G

Stephen L. Noe · February 7th, 2006, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

Stephen, are you saying (for instance in FCP) create a custom setup capturing 720x480 native DV anamorphic with a 1280x720 timeline?

Not exactly, What you can do is create a 720p30 timeline and then trim the 480p60 file and place it on the 720p30 (29.97) timeline. Now scale the 480p60 clip to "fit aspect". Now I don't use FCP (I use Liquid) so from this point some of the FCP guru's can probably tell you how to get the slow mo from the 60p clip. My guess is that you conform the clip to 29.97 which will give you slowmo by 50%.

S.Noe

Daniel Patton · February 7th, 2006, 04:24 PM

I need to try that out, except with PPRO.

But I think what Bruce and everyone else wants to know is...
Can CA and SSE when shooting HDV over SD for NTSC with a DTE and FCP without invoking FA on the JVC cause the GOP in your NLE to have PMS? ;)

Diogo Athouguia · February 7th, 2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Patton

Can CA and SSE when shooting HDV over SD for NTSC with a DTE and FCP without invoking FA on the JVC cause the GOP in your NLE to have PMS? ;)

Well... no!! But maybe when shooting SD or DV over HDV for PAL and not NTSC with a NLE like PPRO or even FCP invoking FA on the JVC may cause the GOP in your NLE to have PMS when psuhed out to HDTV.

Jim Giberti · February 7th, 2006, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Not exactly, What you can do is create a 720p30 timeline and then trim the 480p60 file and place it on the 720p30 (29.97) timeline. Now scale the 480p60 clip to "fit aspect". Now I don't use FCP (I use Liquid) so from this point some of the FCP guru's can probably tell you how to get the slow mo from the 60p clip. My guess is that you conform the clip to 29.97 which will give you slowmo by 50%.

S.Noe

That's pretty much what I'm saying in FCP lingo...you still have to bring the 480p footage in and therefore would have to capture it as 720x480 DV anamorphic in order to be able to drop into the 1280 by 720 29.97 timeline.
Otherwise it won't rescale at the proper aspect ratio.
That's the way you'd do it in FCP.

Stephen L. Noe · February 7th, 2006, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

That's pretty much what I'm saying in FCP lingo...you still have to bring the 480p footage in and therefore would have to capture it as 720x480 DV anamorphic in order to be able to drop into the 1280 by 720 29.97 timeline.
Otherwise it won't rescale at the proper aspect ratio.
That's the way you'd do it in FCP.

I guess that's the difference. In Liquid you just capture the 480p60 file through the firewire and it ends up in the rack as 720x480 59.94fps MP@H-14 and ready to edit (ie a raw HDV clip). There is no cross conversion to DV. I guess that's the difference in NLE's. Once it's in the NLE then you do the proceedure I listed above. It's a snap and the results are very good. The slow mo is excellent and I'll be using this proceedure when I need slow motion.

Tim Dashwood · February 7th, 2006, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I guess that's the difference. In Liquid you just capture the 480p60 file through the firewire and it ends up in the rack as 720x480 59.94fps MP@H-14 and ready to edit (ie a raw HDV clip). There is no cross conversion to DV. I guess that's the difference in NLE's. Once it's in the NLE then you do the proceedure I listed above. It's a snap and the results are very good. The slow mo is excellent and I'll be using this proceedure when I need slow motion.

Not quite. The process for 480P60 has nothing to do with DV. It is still HDV, just not 720P

The procedure in FCP for "HDV-SD60P" (aka 480P60) footage ingest is:

Capture using a m2t capture application like Lumiere HD, HDVxDV, or DVHSCap. Use Mpegstreamclip to cross-convert and up-rez (1 step) to AIC 720P60 (just set 1280x720) as resolution. You can do this as a batch process for a bunch of clips.

Alternatively you could use iMovie HD or the HDV to AIC digitizer in FCP (transcodes to AIC on-the-fly) but you will have to uprez to HD later.

Then open Cinema Tools and batch conform all of your new 720P60 clips to 23.98fps (or 29.97 if you like.)

Drag the clips into FCP and edit.

Jim Giberti · February 7th, 2006, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Not quite. The process for 480P60 has nothing to do with DV. It is still HDV, just not 720P

The procedure in FCP for "HDV-SD60P" (aka 480P60) footage ingest is:

Capture using a m2t capture application like Lumiere HD, HDVxDV, or DVHSCap. Use Mpegstreamclip to cross-convert and up-rez (1 step) to AIC 720P60 (just set 1280x720) as resolution. You can do this as a batch process for a bunch of clips.

Alternatively you could use iMovie HD or the HDV to AIC digitizer in FCP (transcodes to AIC on-the-fly) but you will have to uprez to HD later.

Then open Cinema Tools and batch conform all of your new 720P60 clips to 23.98fps (or 29.97 if you like.)

Drag the clips into FCP and edit.

Tim, any reason (other than the simultaneous uprez) why getting Lumiere would be preferable using the FCP AIC digitizer?

Paolo Ciccone · February 7th, 2006, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

The procedure in FCP for "HDV-SD60P" (aka 480P60) footage ingest is:

Tim, I looked at this and, after reading the manual I noticed that HDV-SD50P is actually 576 lines instead of 480. So we get a 20% resolution increase using 50P. Now, since I plan on shooting 24P, the 50P gives me a 50% slomo effect plus a spurious frame that we can easily ingnore. I did some quick test and it came our quite nicely. Am I missing anything?

--
Paolo

Greg Corke · February 8th, 2006, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Patton

I need to try that out, except with PPRO.

But I think what Bruce and everyone else wants to know is...
Can CA and SSE when shooting HDV over SD for NTSC with a DTE and FCP without invoking FA on the JVC cause the GOP in your NLE to have PMS? ;)

I feel sorry for trhe poor buggers reading that who have no idea what half of those abbrevationa mean. There should be a Sticky on that i.e Abbr. What do you think guys? In fact I may chuck a thread up?

Greg

Tim Dashwood · February 8th, 2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

Tim, any reason (other than the simultaneous uprez) why getting Lumiere would be preferable using the FCP AIC digitizer?

Not in the case of slo-mo - unless you want to maintain sync audio. However you wouldn't have that luxury anyway if you shot on film.

Tim Dashwood · February 8th, 2006, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

I feel sorry for trhe poor buggers reading that who have no idea what half of those abbrevationa mean. There should be a Sticky on that i.e Abbr. What do you think guys? In fact I may chuck a thread up?

Greg

I've been working on a definitive FAQ. I should have it finished in a couple of weeks if I get a few days off.

Tim Dashwood · February 8th, 2006, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone

Tim, I looked at this and, after reading the manual I noticed that HDV-SD50P is actually 576 lines instead of 480. So we get a 20% resolution increase using 50P. Now, since I plan on shooting 24P, the 50P gives me a 50% slomo effect plus a spurious frame that we can easily ingnore. I did some quick test and it came our quite nicely. Am I missing anything?

Paulo, I've done it and it works, and yes the uprez looks even better because it is PAL resolution (576P50).

The only thing to watch for when shooting in North America is flicker from 60Hz cycle sources like flourescent bulbs or possibly HMI lights. Square wave ballasts on HMIs should be fine.

The same would be true for those on 50Hz countries shooting 60P.

February 7th, 2006, 04:17 PM	#18
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	phew Okay not so confused now. Thanks Stephen. Words can be so misleading sometimes. luego G

February 7th, 2006, 04:24 PM	#20
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	I need to try that out, except with PPRO. But I think what Bruce and everyone else wants to know is... Can CA and SSE when shooting HDV over SD for NTSC with a DTE and FCP without invoking FA on the JVC cause the GOP in your NLE to have PMS? ;) __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

February 7th, 2006, 04:00 PM	#16
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Right, the HDV 480p60 mode is an SD mode but scale it to 1280x720 in your NLE and then push it out to HDTV. Amazing quality. I think Michael Pappas took some of my 480p60 stuff and sent it out to a 50" HDTV and could hardly tell the difference (so I hear). Give it a try. The 480p60 HDV mode is the "hidden gem" on the HD-100. It is very versitile.