Question about Firestore/ DR-HD100 at DVinfo.net

Doug Spice · February 3rd, 2006, 04:12 PM

Footage recorded directly to one of these hard drive DTE devices is still going through the exact same HDV compression as if it were going to tape, correct?

Greg Corke · February 3rd, 2006, 04:31 PM

that's correct it still goes through the encoder

Eli R Cantu · February 3rd, 2006, 09:19 PM

Im thinking of buy one of these DR-HD100 DTE to bybass the 3,000+ dollars it is to get the BRU-DECK. Will this record the full specturm of what the JVC records in regards to 720 24p/25p/30p with any apparent issues.

WORKFLOW

JVC HDV_720 24p > DTE HDV_720 24p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 24p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD
JVC HDV_720 25p > DTE HDV_720 25p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 25p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD
JVC HDV_720 30p > DTE HDV_720 30p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 30p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD

Does anyone see a problem in here.......?

Nate Weaver · February 3rd, 2006, 11:01 PM

The Firestore, as it stands right now, only records .m2ts to it's disc. So if your NLE can deal with the m2t (of whatever format), then you'll be fine.

Right now Apple/FCP users are out of luck with the Firestore, but I suspect this is because they're needing to sync their firmware release with the new version of FCP coming.

At lease I hope to the heavens. Us FCP people are dealing with a lot of pent up expectations these days!

Jiri Bakala · February 3rd, 2006, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

At lease I hope to the heavens. Us FCP people are dealing with a lot of pent up expectations these days!

While us, Avid-on-a-Mac people don't have to worry...because Avid is not even promising ANYTHING (to do with HDV support) until the summer. There you go...you lucky buggers...:-)

Nate Weaver · February 3rd, 2006, 11:48 PM

Heh. Right.

I forgot to mention, Focus has made an official statement about supporting 24P HDV, and HDV inside FCP's Quicktime wrapper. They are saying about April, if I remember right.

Right around the NAB/FCP rapture, I suppose.

Greg Corke · February 4th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Hi Nate,

Do you know if cineform or pp supports editing .m2t. If not what system does?

Cheers Greg C

Matthew Pugerude · February 4th, 2006, 03:39 PM

PPro 2.0 will support the file format, but it is really slow and really not that great to edit .m2t files in there native format due to the GOP. Cineform has an Appliction called HD Link that will convert the .m2t file into the Cineform Avi so you can edit it with out having to render. This is much faster then to edit the .m2t file. I do not have PPro 2.0 but that is what I hear and Most people on this forum I bet would advise you not to edit the .m2t file. I am not sure but I think you might be able to have the Firestore record in the cineform codec. If not maybe the poweres that be at Cineform can think that one over.

Greg Corke · February 4th, 2006, 05:10 PM

Thanks Mat,

I think your right. I'm sure I've read that the JVC version of the firestore can store in a number of intermediate codecs, but I can't remember if Cineform is one of them. I need to nail this as my hdd is arriving, after some delay, next week. I'm goig to have a hunt around now see what I can dig up. I'll come back with anything concrete.

Greg C

Greg Corke · February 4th, 2006, 05:44 PM

Just found that bit of blurb on the jvc pro site under dr hd100 (surprise surpise). I was wrong. Only sd is supported at the moment with various inermediates. As Nate said, only .m2t for now with Hdv. Although, the site does state that ther will be an easy 'in the field' firmware upgrade as and when it becomes available. For now I guess I'll have to use the hd link and convert to cineform that way. I'm going be storing all my files on external drives anyway until my projects shot So they can all stay there as .m2ts until I'm ready to edit I guess unless anyone can see a problem with that?

Cheers for now Greg C

Nate Weaver · February 4th, 2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

I'm sure I've read that the JVC version of the firestore can store in a number of intermediate codecs, but I can't remember if Cineform is one of them.

The Firestore, as it exists today, is never going to be a device that will transcode codecs.

When Focus says things like that, they are talking about encapsulating the MPEG stream into different containers. An m2t stream is one kind, the Quicktime file FCP writes when ingesting HDV natively would be another. Both keep the data in MPEG2 format, there is no re-encoding.

Cineform would be a re-encode, as would DVCPRO HD. The next step for devices like that is to get enough processing power eventually to take in MPEG2 via the firewire/HDV connection, and then re-encode in real time to a more useful codec.

Steve Mullen · February 4th, 2006, 10:41 PM

Focus has promised me the first HD-100 to review and they say it should be April. They say it will have 720p30 and 720p24 support with FCP. That may be a hint that Apple plans its next HDV update by NAB.

Greg Corke · February 5th, 2006, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

The Firestore, as it exists today, is never going to be a device that will transcode codecs.

When Focus says things like that, they are talking about encapsulating the MPEG stream into different containers. An m2t stream is one kind, the Quicktime file FCP writes when ingesting HDV natively would be another. Both keep the data in MPEG2 format, there is no re-encoding.

Cineform would be a re-encode, as would DVCPRO HD. The next step for devices like that is to get enough processing power eventually to take in MPEG2 via the firewire/HDV connection, and then re-encode in real time to a more useful codec.

Hi Nate,

So what is the exact meaning of direct to edit then Nate? It says on the jvc site that in SD they can save with a number of different extensions but they do not yet support Hd. I understood this to mean that the footage coulld be recorded to dr hd100 in a codec of choice provided it is supported by the Hardware/software but it sounds like I'm mistaken. Have you had any experience with one of these yet? If so could you enlighten me on its capabilities.

Cheers Greg C

Nate Weaver · February 5th, 2006, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

So what is the exact meaning of direct to edit then Nate? It says on the jvc site that in SD they can save with a number of different extensions but they do not yet support Hd. I understood this to mean that the footage coulld be recorded to dr hd100 in a codec of choice provided it is supported by the Hardware/software but it sounds like I'm mistaken.

You understand things correctly for the most part. It's just that when they say "codec of your choice", they mean "codec of your choice that our little box has the horsepower to convert to in real-time"...which rules out a lot of possibilities.

Some codec conversions would be what most editors call a transcode...meaning say, MPEG-2 to DVCPRO HD. Those are completely different and disparate codecs. Converting between the two is barely real-time even on my dual processor G5.

Then you could have what you call a "conversion", which I would NOT use the word "transcode" for. This would be say, taking a DV stream off a camera, putting the stream into an AVI file (which the FS can do)...and then converting to a Quicktime file. That operation uses the same core codec (the DV codec). That's the sort of thing the Firestore does...take your DV stream and put it in all sorts of "wrappers", hopefully one your NLE uses natively. That's what Focus calls "codec of your choice", which for you has been slightly misleading.

Greg Corke · February 5th, 2006, 01:37 PM

Thanks Nate,

I appreciate that. Just one more quick question. Do you see any problem with me downloading the .m2ts after each days shoot and storing on an external drive and leaving them there until I'm ready to edit for example with Cineform's Aspect and pp. If theres is no problem do you have any idea how long it might take to do this for say 1 hour of footage. (to convert)

All the best Greg C

February 3rd, 2006, 04:12 PM	#1
Doug Spice New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 18	Question about Firestore/ DR-HD100 Footage recorded directly to one of these hard drive DTE devices is still going through the exact same HDV compression as if it were going to tape, correct?

February 3rd, 2006, 09:19 PM	#3
Eli R Cantu New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: McAllen TX USA Posts: 21	But Im thinking of buy one of these DR-HD100 DTE to bybass the 3,000+ dollars it is to get the BRU-DECK. Will this record the full specturm of what the JVC records in regards to 720 24p/25p/30p with any apparent issues. WORKFLOW JVC HDV_720 24p > DTE HDV_720 24p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 24p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD JVC HDV_720 25p > DTE HDV_720 25p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 25p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD JVC HDV_720 30p > DTE HDV_720 30p > A-PRO1.5 HDV_720 30p > HD_WM9& SD_DVD Does anyone see a problem in here.......?

February 3rd, 2006, 11:01 PM	#4
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	The Firestore, as it stands right now, only records .m2ts to it's disc. So if your NLE can deal with the m2t (of whatever format), then you'll be fine. Right now Apple/FCP users are out of luck with the Firestore, but I suspect this is because they're needing to sync their firmware release with the new version of FCP coming. At lease I hope to the heavens. Us FCP people are dealing with a lot of pent up expectations these days! __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

February 3rd, 2006, 11:48 PM	#6
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Heh. Right. I forgot to mention, Focus has made an official statement about supporting 24P HDV, and HDV inside FCP's Quicktime wrapper. They are saying about April, if I remember right. Right around the NAB/FCP rapture, I suppose. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

February 4th, 2006, 03:08 PM	#7
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Nate Hi Nate, Do you know if cineform or pp supports editing .m2t. If not what system does? Cheers Greg C

February 3rd, 2006, 04:31 PM	#2
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	that's correct it still goes through the encoder

February 4th, 2006, 03:39 PM	#8
Matthew Pugerude Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Redmond, Oregon Posts: 173	.m2t files PPro 2.0 will support the file format, but it is really slow and really not that great to edit .m2t files in there native format due to the GOP. Cineform has an Appliction called HD Link that will convert the .m2t file into the Cineform Avi so you can edit it with out having to render. This is much faster then to edit the .m2t file. I do not have PPro 2.0 but that is what I hear and Most people on this forum I bet would advise you not to edit the .m2t file. I am not sure but I think you might be able to have the Firestore record in the cineform codec. If not maybe the poweres that be at Cineform can think that one over.

February 4th, 2006, 05:10 PM	#9
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Thanks Mat, I think your right. I'm sure I've read that the JVC version of the firestore can store in a number of intermediate codecs, but I can't remember if Cineform is one of them. I need to nail this as my hdd is arriving, after some delay, next week. I'm goig to have a hunt around now see what I can dig up. I'll come back with anything concrete. Greg C

February 4th, 2006, 05:44 PM	#10
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Hi Mat found it Just found that bit of blurb on the jvc pro site under dr hd100 (surprise surpise). I was wrong. Only sd is supported at the moment with various inermediates. As Nate said, only .m2t for now with Hdv. Although, the site does state that ther will be an easy 'in the field' firmware upgrade as and when it becomes available. For now I guess I'll have to use the hd link and convert to cineform that way. I'm going be storing all my files on external drives anyway until my projects shot So they can all stay there as .m2ts until I'm ready to edit I guess unless anyone can see a problem with that? Cheers for now Greg C

February 4th, 2006, 10:41 PM	#12
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Focus has promised me the first HD-100 to review and they say it should be April. They say it will have 720p30 and 720p24 support with FCP. That may be a hint that Apple plans its next HDV update by NAB. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

February 5th, 2006, 01:37 PM	#15
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Thanks Nate Thanks Nate, I appreciate that. Just one more quick question. Do you see any problem with me downloading the .m2ts after each days shoot and storing on an external drive and leaving them there until I'm ready to edit for example with Cineform's Aspect and pp. If theres is no problem do you have any idea how long it might take to do this for say 1 hour of footage. (to convert) All the best Greg C