timecode? at DVinfo.net

Greg Corke · January 4th, 2006, 02:08 PM

After reading the other thread on timecode i'm wondering, do I need to stripe my tape when shooting hd. Judging by what Steve Mullen is saying I don't. be confused to be honest (no surprise there I hear you all say.

Regards, Greg C.

P.S. also is timecode the same when i shoot sd as hd?

Jiri Bakala · January 4th, 2006, 02:13 PM

You shouldn't need to stripe camera tapes. As long as you record some 30 seconds of bars at the beginning and try to stop shooting a minute or so before the end of the tape, you should be fine.

As for the TC being the same, maybe someone can confirm that; good question, when you record 30p or 60p in HDV, what is the time code?

Greg Corke · January 4th, 2006, 06:18 PM

Thanks Jiri,

So why is it I don't need to stripe the tape when shooting with the hd 100? I first tried to capture some footage without striping a tape and premiere said 'timecode unrecognized' then I striped one with colour bars added and it was okay. However I thought it was okay because I striped the tape not because I added colour bars, how do they help the process?

Regards, Greg C.

Jiri Bakala · January 4th, 2006, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

So why is it I don't need to stripe the tape when shooting with the hd 100? I first tried to capture some footage without striping a tape and premiere said 'time code unrecognized' then I striped one with colour bars added and it was okay. However I thought it was okay because I striped the tape not because I added colour bars, how do they help the process?

I don't know why Premiere wasn't happy with the TC...perhaps the project setting didn't match the camera recording format you used?

As for the colour bars; it's a standard procedure to record bars and tone to the first 30 seconds of tape and its purpose is to provide a reference signal for post and also to forward the tape past its very beginning, where is the most pull on the tape and, therefore, the highest likelihood of dropouts. Same goes for the end of the tape.

Tim Dashwood · January 4th, 2006, 08:31 PM

720P30 uses standard SMPTE style 30 frame TC DF or NDF, so no NLE that supports 720P30 should have a problem with it.

However, when shooting in 24P, (unlike the way the DVX100 or XL2 handle 24P) the HD100 seems to lay down "24 frame TC" instead of standard 30 frame TC.

So each second starts at :00 and ends at :23 (instead of the standard :29)

This creates a big problem for when in 24P mode because most capture presets are expecting standard SMPTE code, and when they don't see they assume there is a TC break. To add to the confusion, there are actually 60 frames per second being digitized, even though 36 of them are duplicates.

Now, on to the original question of striping tapes.

The only good reason for striping your tapes is to avoid TC breaks. On consumer level miniDV cameras this was a real problem because if you powered down mid tape, then started up again, the REGEN TC wouldn't continue and the TC would reset to 00:00:00:00. This is obviously bad for logging and digitizing.

However, since the HD100 has a "REC" mode in its TC generator (just like pro cameras) this shouldn't happen, even if you change the battery. TC will always continue where it left off, even if you have a blank spot on the tape.

A practice you might want to start though is "packing" your tape. Fast Forward each blank tape to the end and then rewind it back to the front. This will ensure that the tape is tightly wound and lessen the chances of the tape getting "eaten" by the cassette mechanism.

Greg Corke · January 5th, 2006, 03:06 PM

Hi Tim and Jiri,

As usual sage words and thanks for your time. I'm gonna ask a couple more questions here but I know you guys are pretty busy so don't feel obliged to answer. I was shooting in sd because I wanted to edit some stuff and also see what it looked like as I only have premiere 6.5 at the moment. Maybe my problem was a one off so I'm gonna try another test at the weekend but before I do I just want to make sure that

a) In theory, I should not need to stripe the tape in sd 25p is that correct?

b) for best results shooting sd 25p should I be running run-rec tc, free run, or regen?

Additionaly, I will be getting the DR hd100 in a couple of weeks time and will only be using the tape as back up but

c) if i'm shooting hd to tape the time code is automatically put onto it as with sd? or is it that it does not put it on automatically because you simply don't need it?

I know this all sounds dumb to you guys but I just want to be getting into good habits.

Cheers guys, Greg C.

P.S. Tim I don't have a seperate deck would the forward fasting and rewinding
wear out weigh the benefits?

Jiri Bakala · January 5th, 2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

a) In theory, I should not need to stripe the tape in sd 25p is that correct?

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

b) for best results shooting sd 25p should I be running run-rec tc, free run, or regen?

Depends. Most common for a single camera shooting is Record Run.
Regen is used if you have taken the tape out of the camera and need to re-set it back at the point where you last finished. You need to read the manual and follow the steps. Regen stands for 'regenerating' TC.
Free run means that the TC runs constantly even if you turn the camera off. It's usually set to the time of day and it could be handy if you need to know when the footage was shot or if you are trying to sync (approximately) more cameras together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

Additionally, I will be getting the DR hd100 in a couple of weeks time and will only be using the tape as back up but

c) if i'm shooting hd to tape the time code is automatically put onto it as with sd? or is it that it does not put it on automatically because you simply don't need it?

Yes, HDV will burn TC onto the tape automatically and yes, TC is useful in HDV as well (contrarily to what some say).

Jiri Bakala · January 5th, 2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Corke

P.S. Tim I don't have a seperate deck would the forward fasting and rewinding
wear out weigh the benefits?

I am not Tim, but here are my $0.02:
The deck will save the wear and tear on the heads of the camera if you are using it for editing. That's the biggest benefit. Also, because it has an RS422 control, it will be more precise (namely in DV). And, for packing tapes it will be faster, although, the camera heads are not really involved in rewinding and fast forwarding. As far as I am concerned, the less use is put on the tape mechanism of the camera the better. The deck is designed to take the wear and tear of shuttling tapes, rewinding, etc.

Greg Corke · January 5th, 2006, 03:38 PM

Jiri your a gent i can't thank you enough for the quick response. I think I speak for alot of the newer members when I say guys like yourself and Tim, Nate Weaver, Steve Mullen and the guv, mr Hurd to name but a few are incredibly generous with your contributions I just hope I'm in that same position one day i.e. answering more than asking.

All the best, Greg C.

January 4th, 2006, 02:08 PM	#1
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	timecode? After reading the other thread on timecode i'm wondering, do I need to stripe my tape when shooting hd. Judging by what Steve Mullen is saying I don't. be confused to be honest (no surprise there I hear you all say. Regards, Greg C. P.S. also is timecode the same when i shoot sd as hd?

January 4th, 2006, 02:13 PM	#2
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	You shouldn't need to stripe camera tapes. As long as you record some 30 seconds of bars at the beginning and try to stop shooting a minute or so before the end of the tape, you should be fine. As for the TC being the same, maybe someone can confirm that; good question, when you record 30p or 60p in HDV, what is the time code? __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

January 4th, 2006, 06:18 PM	#3
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	thanks Thanks Jiri, So why is it I don't need to stripe the tape when shooting with the hd 100? I first tried to capture some footage without striping a tape and premiere said 'timecode unrecognized' then I striped one with colour bars added and it was okay. However I thought it was okay because I striped the tape not because I added colour bars, how do they help the process? Regards, Greg C.

January 4th, 2006, 08:31 PM	#5
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	720P30 uses standard SMPTE style 30 frame TC DF or NDF, so no NLE that supports 720P30 should have a problem with it. However, when shooting in 24P, (unlike the way the DVX100 or XL2 handle 24P) the HD100 seems to lay down "24 frame TC" instead of standard 30 frame TC. So each second starts at :00 and ends at :23 (instead of the standard :29) This creates a big problem for when in 24P mode because most capture presets are expecting standard SMPTE code, and when they don't see they assume there is a TC break. To add to the confusion, there are actually 60 frames per second being digitized, even though 36 of them are duplicates. Now, on to the original question of striping tapes. The only good reason for striping your tapes is to avoid TC breaks. On consumer level miniDV cameras this was a real problem because if you powered down mid tape, then started up again, the REGEN TC wouldn't continue and the TC would reset to 00:00:00:00. This is obviously bad for logging and digitizing. However, since the HD100 has a "REC" mode in its TC generator (just like pro cameras) this shouldn't happen, even if you change the battery. TC will always continue where it left off, even if you have a blank spot on the tape. A practice you might want to start though is "packing" your tape. Fast Forward each blank tape to the end and then rewind it back to the front. This will ensure that the tape is tightly wound and lessen the chances of the tape getting "eaten" by the cassette mechanism. __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 5th, 2006, 03:06 PM	#6
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Sage words Hi Tim and Jiri, As usual sage words and thanks for your time. I'm gonna ask a couple more questions here but I know you guys are pretty busy so don't feel obliged to answer. I was shooting in sd because I wanted to edit some stuff and also see what it looked like as I only have premiere 6.5 at the moment. Maybe my problem was a one off so I'm gonna try another test at the weekend but before I do I just want to make sure that a) In theory, I should not need to stripe the tape in sd 25p is that correct? b) for best results shooting sd 25p should I be running run-rec tc, free run, or regen? Additionaly, I will be getting the DR hd100 in a couple of weeks time and will only be using the tape as back up but c) if i'm shooting hd to tape the time code is automatically put onto it as with sd? or is it that it does not put it on automatically because you simply don't need it? I know this all sounds dumb to you guys but I just want to be getting into good habits. Cheers guys, Greg C. P.S. Tim I don't have a seperate deck would the forward fasting and rewinding wear out weigh the benefits?

January 5th, 2006, 03:38 PM	#9
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	wow quick response Jiri your a gent i can't thank you enough for the quick response. I think I speak for alot of the newer members when I say guys like yourself and Tim, Nate Weaver, Steve Mullen and the guv, mr Hurd to name but a few are incredibly generous with your contributions I just hope I'm in that same position one day i.e. answering more than asking. All the best, Greg C.