HD 100 vs. XL-2 in DV mode?

[Carl Ny]

Hi there, lots of nice information...Thanks!!!
Anybody who have compared or have a clue how the
JVC HD-100 is in DV-mode? And compared to Canon XL-2 / GL-2

Looking forward :)

Carl

[Tim Dashwood]

I own both and I still absolutely love the quality of image the XL2 can produce in 16x9 mode. I would say it is definitely "best in its class." (DVX100B, PD170, XL1s, etc.)

The fact that the HD100 has a DV mode is a great selling feature when comparing to the XL2. More image manipulation power than the XL2 in a HD100 form factor! (and the audio system is much easier to understand.)
I wish the HD100 had a lens the same quality as the Canon 16x or 14x manual lens for the same price. The Fujinon 13x lens is currently the high-quality option, but it is very expensive in comparison.

I was unhappy the first time I used the DV mode on my first HD100 because it looked like the footage was going through the MPEG2 encoder before being encoded into DV. That first camera also had some other problems and when I received my replacement it seemed that the bug had been fixed.
So now it seems that shooting in DV mode with the HD100 works well - but I haven't had time to do side-by-side comparisons yet.

There is the alternate option of shooting HDV and then downconverting in post (which JVC suggests will render even sharper 480P or 576P images.)

I still absolutely love the image of the XL2, but it hasn't been out of the box since the HD100s arrived. I guess that confirms that I'm now addicted to HD!

[Carl Ny]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

I own both and I still absolutely love the quality of image the XL2 can produce in 16x9 mode. I would say it is definitely "best in its class." (DVX100B, PD170, XL1s, etc.)

The fact that the HD100 has a DV mode is a great selling feature when comparing to the XL2. More image manipulation power than the XL2 in a HD100 form factor! (and the audio system is much easier to understand.)
I wish the HD100 had a lens the same quality as the Canon 16x or 14x manual lens for the same price. The Fujinon 13x lens is currently the high-quality option, but it is very expensive in comparison.

I was unhappy the first time I used the DV mode on my first HD100 because it looked like the footage was going through the MPEG2 encoder before being encoded into DV. That first camera also had some other problems and when I received my replacement it seemed that the bug had been fixed.
So now it seems that shooting in DV mode with the HD100 works well - but I haven't had time to do side-by-side comparisons yet.

There is the alternate option of shooting HDV and then downconverting in post (which JVC suggests will render even sharper 480P or 576P images.)

I still absolutely love the image of the XL2, but it hasn't been out of the box since the HD100s arrived. I guess that confirms that I'm now addicted to HD!

Sounds really interesting, thanks Tim!
Since you have both I have to ask you a couple of questions more:

If you should do a sport DVD for 720x576 PAL/ SD TV:s; what camera would you choose?

And the downcoversion sounds really interesting and maybe give DV an even better look.
Do you know which software is best to do the downconversion from HDV to DV for Mac?

Thanks!

Carl

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Carl Ny

If you should do a sport DVD for 720x576 PAL/ SD TV:s; what camera would you choose?

Either would do for fast action. Set the shutter speed higher to get sharper motion. Both HD100E (or 101E) will shoot DV50i as well as 25P so you always have that as an option as well.

Originally Posted by Carl Ny

Do you know which software is best to do the downconversion from HDV to DV for Mac?

I just use compressor or downscale within FCP. Either method works very well.

[Carl Ny]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Either would do for fast action. Set the shutter speed higher to get sharper motion. Both HD100E (or 101E) will shoot DV50i as well as 25P so you always have that as an option as well.

I just use compressor or downscale within FCP. Either method works very well.

Thanks for your quick reply.

So maybe it is better to film HDV then convert to 720x576 DV for the better/ higher picture information
for a PAL DVD?

Sounds like a good way to go....?



Carl

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Carl Ny

So maybe it is better to film HDV then convert to 720x576 DV for the better/ higher picture information
for a PAL DVD?

Not necessarily better... maybe the same. The XL2 is damn sharp - great for SD work. Those XL2 CCDs capture way more information than actually gets encoded into the DV codec and the Canon glass is very good. Chris has some great info on the XL2 chips here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/index.php

http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxl2/articles/article06.php

I actually own the PAL version of the XL2 (even though I'm in NTSC land) because the pixel count is about 20% higher than the NTSC version.

[Werner Wesp]

If you're going for a sports DVD, you might want to shoot in HDV, SD-resolution, but at 50 or 60 frames (p) per second. I don't know what kind of sport you had in mind, but if you need any slow motion, that is defenately the best option.

[Laszlo Horvath]

"If you should do a sport DVD for 720x576 PAL/ SD TV:s; what camera would you choose?"

I just recorded a hockey game in Detroit's Joe Louis Arena with my HD100 from the same spot where usually a TV camera is. The footage is awsome! I recorded in HD-SD480/60, edited id Edius 3.5
I made about 30 copies, the parents called me and they said the footage is fantastic.
It is... a big time.

Laszlo

[Carl Ny]

Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath

"If you should do a sport DVD for 720x576 PAL/ SD TV:s; what camera would you choose?"

I just recorded a hockey game in Detroit's Joe Louis Arena with my HD100 from the same spot where usually a TV camera is. The footage is awsome! I recorded in HD-SD480/60, edited id Edius 3.5
I made about 30 copies, the parents called me and they said the footage is fantastic.
It is... a big time.

Laszlo

Cool, but how does the progressive motion look in faster pans for ex after the puck
and player on the ice? Are you able to show a short clip?
Or did you convert it to 60-interlaced?

Thanks!

Carl

[Laszlo Horvath]

Originally Posted by Carl Ny

Cool, but how does the progressive motion look in faster pans for ex after the puck
and player on the ice? Are you able to show a short clip?
Or did you convert it to 60-interlaced?

Thanks!

Carl

This is what I did. I just edited in Edius DV NTSC 16:9 project, and convert the final project to Canopus HQ DV file. I made the DVD from this converted file. Again, the footage is look awsome. Don't forget this is 60p not 30p.
I did a little intro before the game, and those footages was 720/30p. Was beautyful, but when I showed the ice with players on it,the footage was useless, jittery. And these was steady shoot, not paning, or zooming. Still, the players look horrible. But again, these was 720/30p. For the game, I switched to 480/60p. Still progressive, but 60 frame/sec.
Again, it's beautyful.
If you want copy of the footage, (DVD) just let me know, I'll send you one, you'll be surprize.

Laszlo

[Jose L. Martínez Díaz]

We had a chance to shot a play outdoors with these two cameras in SD mode (16*9 25p), matching matrixes and gamma curves, and footage from both cameras intercut quite well. I cannot see sharpness advantage in any side, perhaps the HD100 surpases canon' cdds, but then you have the glass.

I'll try to post some camparisions in a day or two.

Jose

[Carl Ny]

Originally Posted by Jose L. Martínez Díaz

We had a chance to shot a play outdoors with these two cameras in SD mode (16*9 25p), matching matrixes and gamma curves, and footage from both cameras intercut quite well. I cannot see sharpness advantage in any side, perhaps the HD100 surpases canon' cdds, but then you have the glass.

I'll try to post some camparisions in a day or two.

Jose

That would be great!

Thanks!

Carl

[Carl Ny]

I understand that you have to think more s-16/ 35mm film camera, when coming to pans etc.
Looking through the net for JVC HD-100 footage, and the only I have found here and there is still very safe movements.
Is there anybody who have footage with faster moving object like sports/ action?
Or is the JVC progressive motion too "stroby" for fast moving action?


All the best

Carl

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Carl Ny

I understand that you have to think more s-16/ 35mm film camera, when coming to pans etc.
Looking through the net for JVC HD-100 footage, and the only I have found here and there is still very safe movements.
Is there anybody who have footage with faster moving object like sports/ action?
Or is the JVC progressive motion too "stroby" for fast moving action?

Warren Shultz posted some skateboarding footage a couple of months ago. I thought it looked great. 1/24th shutter in 720P24 I believe. Is that right Warren? There would have been less motion blur at a higher shutter speed.

http://rvimedia.com/pics/skateboard.m2t

[Carl Ny]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Warren Shultz posted some skateboarding footage a couple of months ago. I thought it looked great. 1/24th shutter in 720P24 I believe. Is that right Warren? There would have been less motion blur at a higher shutter speed.

http://rvimedia.com/pics/skateboard.m2t

Thanks Tim for the link.
Looks good...hmm maybe this is the cam for me after all...
Sleepless nights +))

Any more tips where I can find more of different JVC - HD 100 footage?

Thanks again!

Carl