Tape brands at DVinfo.net

Jiri Bakala · November 25th, 2005, 12:50 PM

Seeking oppinions here:

What kinds of tapes are you guys using?
In the past I've been using mostly Sony tapes with my DSR-500 and when using Z1U but with the HD100 I am being told that it could be an issue because Sony tapes use 'wet' lubrication vs. JVC/Fuji and others using 'dry' lubrication.

Hence, the thinking here is: we all know not to switch tape brands back and forth, but if one uses Sony tapes with the camera from the get go and doesn't switch to other brands, would that cause any concern?

Of course, JVC reps will claim that that's bad but is it really?

Stephen L. Noe · November 25th, 2005, 04:28 PM

Sony tapes should not be used in JVC or Panasonic gear. It will clog the video heads. Use JVC tapes in JVC gear. What you've heard about 'wet' tapes it true.

Nate Weaver · November 25th, 2005, 04:46 PM

I've been Sony Reds with my camera from the get-go with only one dropout.

I know there will be others that disagree, but I subscribe to the idea that as long as you stick to one lube formulation, you'll be alright for the most part. I'm also sure that some lubes are better than others, and prob dry is better.

Tim Dashwood · November 25th, 2005, 06:01 PM

The only Sony tape I would consider using (if it was the only tape I ever used from day 1) would be the "Reds" (DVM63HD.) It is designed for HDV with "50% fewer dropouts" (and the FX1/Z1 need the fewest dropouts possible) but they are also using a new lubricant that I have heard works OK on any brand camcorder. Very expensive though!

However, I have used a couple of the Panasonic MQ tapes (that is all I ever put in my DVX or XL2 without a single problem) and JVC "Pro" DVM60ME. I haven't seen any dropouts except for a slight 1 frame glitch sometimes when at edit points in the original tape. I don't think this has anything to do with the tape, but is a MPEG2 hiccup.

Officially, the recommended tape is JVC's M-DV63PROHD. It is probably your best bet.

Michael Maier · November 25th, 2005, 07:45 PM

I'm using Sony Excellence (DVM60,the black and red ones) and a Sony cleaning tape as well.

Nate, your website looks great!
Tried to watch the clips on your reel, but they would play for about 10 seconds and freeze. But I like what I could see. Are all them done with the HD100 or there's DVX100 in there too. Some of them seem to be shot with the Mini35 too.
Very nice work.

Nate Weaver · November 25th, 2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Nate, your website looks great!
Tried to watch the clips on your reel, but they would play for about 10 seconds and freeze. But I like what I could see. Are all them done with the HD100 or there's DVX100 in there too. Some of them seem to be shot with the Mini35 too.
Very nice work.

Are you kidding? I couldn't have made all those videos in the 2 months I've had the camera!

All were shot on the DVX, except for Tsunami Bomb which was shot on the FX-1. None were done with the Mini35, only the one I just shot the other week which isn't up yet.

Luis Otero · November 25th, 2005, 10:51 PM

I have been using the Panasonic MQ tapes without a single drop-out. It is a great product. I am of the school that calls to stick to one brand for your camera and you should not have any problem. That has been my experience in more than 100 tapes being used in different camera brands/models.

My 2 cents...

Luis

Guy Barwood · November 26th, 2005, 09:10 PM

Panasonic now have their Advanced Master (AMQ) in miniDV format now too.

Richard Zlamany · November 26th, 2005, 10:06 PM

I use a sony camera with Panasonic AY-DVM83PQ 83 Minutes Mini DV Professional Quality Video Cassette for over year without one dropout. I am a big fan of having more tape time that these tapes offer.

Luis Otero · November 27th, 2005, 11:04 AM

I read somewhere that for the HD100 it is not recommended to use the 80 minutes tape. I do not understand the rationale, but it might be related to the timecode. Or maybe because they do not consider anything above 63 minutes to be manufactured to a professional level it is required. Any comments?

Luis

Nate Weaver · November 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM

Tape over 60 minutes is on a thinner poly base, and more susceptible to stretching.

Tape that stretches, even the most tiny amounts, will cause data read problems like dropouts, etc.

Richard Zlamany · November 27th, 2005, 02:48 PM

Regardless, I use these tapes all the time, and use them over again, and never had a drop out or problem. I will report back if anything bad happens. But so far I am sticking with this as brand and workflow.

I am neurotic about changing to different types of tape or brand names.

Jiri Bakala · November 27th, 2005, 05:00 PM

Interesting, thanks for all the responses.

Now, here is another thought: if Sony's long GOP is more prone to dropouts and while the tape transport of Sony cameras (Z1U) and others (incl. HD100) must be somewhat similar, why would Sony use technology that others don't endorse - wet lubrication? We have used SONY Digital Master PHDVM-63DM tapes in Z1U without problems, in punishing environments, including this year's Burning Man in Nevada desert.

Can someone actually explain the difference between 'dry' and 'wet' lubrication?

Luis Otero · November 27th, 2005, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Tape over 60 minutes is on a thinner poly base, and more susceptible to stretching.

Tape that stretches, even the most tiny amounts, will cause data read problems like dropouts, etc.

Nate,

Thanks for remind me abouth the reason why those long tape are not recommended nor considered profesional grade.

Luis

Brian Duke · November 27th, 2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Sony tapes should not be used in JVC or Panasonic gear. It will clog the video heads. Use JVC tapes in JVC gear. What you've heard about 'wet' tapes it true.

Oops I've used Sony tapes (just one tape) so far? Can I switch to JVC now, or will it ruin the Camcorder? I guess it won't matter once I use the harddrive.

November 25th, 2005, 12:50 PM	#1
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	Tape brands Seeking oppinions here: What kinds of tapes are you guys using? In the past I've been using mostly Sony tapes with my DSR-500 and when using Z1U but with the HD100 I am being told that it could be an issue because Sony tapes use 'wet' lubrication vs. JVC/Fuji and others using 'dry' lubrication. Hence, the thinking here is: we all know not to switch tape brands back and forth, but if one uses Sony tapes with the camera from the get go and doesn't switch to other brands, would that cause any concern? Of course, JVC reps will claim that that's bad but is it really? __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 25th, 2005, 04:46 PM	#3
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I've been Sony Reds with my camera from the get-go with only one dropout. I know there will be others that disagree, but I subscribe to the idea that as long as you stick to one lube formulation, you'll be alright for the most part. I'm also sure that some lubes are better than others, and prob dry is better. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

November 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM	#11
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Tape over 60 minutes is on a thinner poly base, and more susceptible to stretching. Tape that stretches, even the most tiny amounts, will cause data read problems like dropouts, etc. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net Last edited by Nate Weaver; November 27th, 2005 at 12:55 PM.

November 27th, 2005, 05:00 PM	#13
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	Interesting, thanks for all the responses. Now, here is another thought: if Sony's long GOP is more prone to dropouts and while the tape transport of Sony cameras (Z1U) and others (incl. HD100) must be somewhat similar, why would Sony use technology that others don't endorse - wet lubrication? We have used SONY Digital Master PHDVM-63DM tapes in Z1U without problems, in punishing environments, including this year's Burning Man in Nevada desert. Can someone actually explain the difference between 'dry' and 'wet' lubrication? __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 25th, 2005, 04:28 PM	#2
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Sony tapes should not be used in JVC or Panasonic gear. It will clog the video heads. Use JVC tapes in JVC gear. What you've heard about 'wet' tapes it true.

November 25th, 2005, 06:01 PM	#4
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The only Sony tape I would consider using (if it was the only tape I ever used from day 1) would be the "Reds" (DVM63HD.) It is designed for HDV with "50% fewer dropouts" (and the FX1/Z1 need the fewest dropouts possible) but they are also using a new lubricant that I have heard works OK on any brand camcorder. Very expensive though! However, I have used a couple of the Panasonic MQ tapes (that is all I ever put in my DVX or XL2 without a single problem) and JVC "Pro" DVM60ME. I haven't seen any dropouts except for a slight 1 frame glitch sometimes when at edit points in the original tape. I don't think this has anything to do with the tape, but is a MPEG2 hiccup. Officially, the recommended tape is JVC's M-DV63PROHD. It is probably your best bet.

November 25th, 2005, 07:45 PM	#5
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	I'm using Sony Excellence (DVM60,the black and red ones) and a Sony cleaning tape as well. Nate, your website looks great! Tried to watch the clips on your reel, but they would play for about 10 seconds and freeze. But I like what I could see. Are all them done with the HD100 or there's DVX100 in there too. Some of them seem to be shot with the Mini35 too. Very nice work.

November 25th, 2005, 10:51 PM	#7
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	I have been using the Panasonic MQ tapes without a single drop-out. It is a great product. I am of the school that calls to stick to one brand for your camera and you should not have any problem. That has been my experience in more than 100 tapes being used in different camera brands/models. My 2 cents... Luis

November 26th, 2005, 09:10 PM	#8
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Panasonic now have their Advanced Master (AMQ) in miniDV format now too.

November 26th, 2005, 10:06 PM	#9
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	I use a sony camera with Panasonic AY-DVM83PQ 83 Minutes Mini DV Professional Quality Video Cassette for over year without one dropout. I am a big fan of having more tape time that these tapes offer.

November 27th, 2005, 11:04 AM	#10
Luis Otero Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Fort Dodge, IA Posts: 221	I read somewhere that for the HD100 it is not recommended to use the 80 minutes tape. I do not understand the rationale, but it might be related to the timecode. Or maybe because they do not consider anything above 63 minutes to be manufactured to a professional level it is required. Any comments? Luis

November 27th, 2005, 02:48 PM	#12
Richard Zlamany Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamden CT Posts: 470	Regardless, I use these tapes all the time, and use them over again, and never had a drop out or problem. I will report back if anything bad happens. But so far I am sticking with this as brand and workflow. I am neurotic about changing to different types of tape or brand names.