Deck control and time code issues

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Sean McHenry

Direct question for Panos - have you actually been able to put the deck into play, rew, ff, pause, stop from the Avid deck control panel? We can get one or two mouse clicks which can put the deck into play but then it will fail with an error.
Sean

Now we have some information!

This behavior I've seen when the DV Control Preset is used. It seems that there is enough similarity that some DV devices codes will, for example, start PLAY but then the data coming back is not correct.

So I suspect, you either are not using the correct Device Preset or you do not have the Menus set correctly and the HDV/DV switch set correctly. So instead of saying Avid doesn't support ...

Tell us what you are trying to do (HDV or DV) and what your settings are.

[Sean McHenry]

Man this is getting painful. All your suspisions about how I am doing things and what presets I am or am not using have so far been incorrect. We have used - as I have said in all my discussions on this matter - all the deck presets and all Avid presets. We have used the recommended settings by Avid and by JVC. Let's not forget I have been in contact with JVC technical people on this and with everyones suggestions, including the people that make this stuff, nothing is working for us, and a lot of other people.

We have started with SD projects and attempted to import HDV footage by both 1394 and 422. We have started with 720p HDV projects and been unable to make it work. We have started with 1080i HD projects and been unable to make it work.

Believe me when I say we have exhaustivly tested every input method, deck preset menu and every Avid (well honestly only most) deck control presets. We are using HDV, not DV settings. We have attempted to gain control on DV mode with DV and DVCam tapes and still no control.

Stephen, thanks for the info on the change. I am unaware of this on Avid. It is supposed to be either SD, HDV or HD and that's all I know. This may indeed be part of the issue but so far no word from Avid on this one. Still waiting.

Sean McHenry

[Tim Dashwood]

Sean,

You should just try the new version of HDVxDV and see if it gets you going until Avid works out their problems.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...417#post383417

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Sean McHenry

Man this is getting painful.

Since you claim you are doing everything right -- then there is not much anyone can do to help you.

Panos says he's working with HDV and I subscribe to the Avid list and I've not seen one complaint.

Can you capture 720p30 HDV by ANY method and edit it?

Because if you can't -- that's simply too big an error for Avid to have missed.

If you can capture and edit -- then Avid does support HDV, but not in the way you wish it did.

[Jiri Bakala]

It could also be a faulty deck. I am getting mine on Monday but since I am on a Mac, my Avid is not HDV/HD compatible (yet). However, one of the first things I will test is its RS-422 machine control. We can compare notes at that point. Otherwise, I have no other problems with my system, have been controlling DVCAM decks, XDCAM decks and HDV Sony deck without any issues.

Okay, did some more searching and it appears that Avid simply needs to update their deck templates. From what I read, the deck is okay and works fine with Sony Vegas but doesn't work with Avid MC or XP HD. Let's hope that Avid will address this with their next update.

Here is more reading:
http://www.dmnforums.com/cgi-bin/dis...0927155255.htm

[Dave Beaty]

I can control the deck via RS-422 on OS 9 via Media 100 7.5 using a Stealth serial adpator. That's at least 4 or 5 year old technology. I would assume that means it works with standard machine control protocol. As far as timecode, I'm not so sure. I've been using 29.97 SMPTE and never considered there's a 60 or 24 frame base code for the HD100.

I did check firewire control in FCPro 5.0.3 and that works too.

I haven't done testing with burn in to check offset on captured clips but otherwise, everything works fine. I would think Avid should work, just as it does for any other RS-422 deck.

Dave B

[Sean McHenry]

It's looking like an Avid issue more and more. If I use Vegas, I have control of the deck but TC is off a few frames when I pause the deck. This is via 1394 by the way. I think the TC issue there is that, and this is an actual assumption on my part and may be totally off base but, if the deck is showing the last TC at an I frame and the Vegas software is interpolating the frames between the I frames, that could well explain the different readings when in pause mode. As the deck would stop at random places, it make sense.

On the other hand, I think the Avid software is to blame for the issue here. I can gain control of the deck at least via 1394 from Vegas but not from Avid.

I do actually have a thread on the Avid forum on this and there is another listing at another popular forum but I forgot to mail myself the link at home. I can post them both tomorrow if anyone is interested.

For now, I will put it on Avids shoulders and see what they can come up with. The deck is apparently not broken. I have no serial ports on the laptop to test 422 control.

I will report anything Avid tells me on the issue.

Thanks everyone for checking this issue with me. I'm betting as the deck ships more, we may see this issue. I smell Avid Xpress ProHD ver. 5.2.1 in the near future.

Sean McHenry

[Tim Dashwood]

Sean,

Just out of curiosity... can you stick a miniDV or DVCAM formatted tape inthe deck and control/digitize?

[Sean McHenry]

Nope. Tried DVCam with the DS the other day via 422 and all the various deck and Avid presets. No-go. Odd isn't it.

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Sean McHenry

Nope. Tried DVCam with the DS the other day via 422 and all the various deck and Avid presets. No-go. Odd isn't it.

So it is more than just a format issue (or 60fps timebase problem.)

And no luck using a generic deck template with a DV tape?

[Tim Dashwood]

Sean,

I've been reading the manual for the BR-50 and I have an idea to try.

So assuming you want to use the RS-422 remote controller...
In REMOTE menu screen, set CONTROLLER SELECT to TYPE 7

If that doesn't work, try some of the other types. Obviously remote 9P will need to be selected on the remote switch.

Page 75 of the manual.

[Sean McHenry]

Again, did that. That's what I meant when I said I have tried all the deck presets as well as the Avid presets.

Really odd thing here - seems preset 5, which is not an Avid preset, holds control a bit longer but still fails after about 30 seconds or less. Some presets fail imediatly.

My guess is that the presets that work the longest are not polling the deck as often so they don't get bad information for a while and keep going. As soon as they poll the deck for information, that's when it fails. If the preset says check the status every 30 seconds, I can see how we would get a good 30 seconds out of it. The other presets may be polling much more often. Maybe even every frame. Purely a guess.


Bzzzzzzzt. Thanks for playing the home game.

Sean McHenry

[Stephen L. Noe]

Sean,

I beg your pardon, but are you working on XP or Mac?

[Panos Bournias]

Hi Sean, i answer to your question. Yes i can control the deck from the capture page of the Avis with alot of I/O problems. To tell you the truth i capture relatively easy my material that was 40 tapes. While i capture i can preview it to the TV Logic monitor. I shot in 30p and i think that the Avid does not support yet 24p. When the problem occurs i have to leave the aplication and restart the computer. Then the deck is immediately recognized. Sometimes i forget to turn on the remote, then everything hangs. I will be out for two days then i will take a look at the settings and let you know. Is 5 in the morning and i still export to HDV devise hoping not to get drop outs. I will try with the HD and hopefully everything will be fixed, ..i doubt it...!

[Steve Mullen]

Panos is correct -- no capture of 24p is possible. Like using HDV in FCP.

I'm sure he is using FW. Wish we knew his I/O errors, but it certainly confirms the Avid can capture and edit HDV.

I still suspect, given his output problems, that his machine may not be Kosher.

And both are using PC since there is no Mac version till next summer.