Letterbox on HD100U at DVinfo.net

Brian Duke · November 6th, 2005, 07:24 PM

How do I get the letterbox to appear when I play back on my monitor?

I shot some stuff in 24P HDV and when I pleayed it back on my TV it looked great but the image was a bit warped and no letterbox showed up despite the fact that I recorded it in 16:9.

Also, how do I get REALLY wide shot letterbox. I.e. wider than 16:9? 16:9 doesn't seem to be that wide.

I just watched Star Wars and it was shot on the Sony f900 and they got a much wider shot. granted they used a more expensive camera, but there has to be some way to get a wider letter box on screen.

Any help is appreciated.

Thanks

Jiri Bakala · November 6th, 2005, 07:49 PM

I don't believe that the camera has an option of 'letterboxed' output (please, correct me if I am wrong). As for the usual path, it's done in your editor (FCP, Avid, etc.), by resizing the timeline to 'letterboxed', which is about 75-77% top to bottom.

Same goes for shooting in wider aspect ratios, such as 2.35:1, etc. You would shoot it in 'regular' 16x9 (1.78:1) but frame for 2.35:1, using a monitor with accurately taped top and bottom. You could do that with the LCD screen of the camera as well. Later, when all is edited and ready for output to tape/DVD/whatever, the entire timeline is cropped to the required aspect ratio.

Hope this helps.

Steve Mullen · November 7th, 2005, 01:28 AM

Correct -- any 16:9 is output as anamorphic video.

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Correct -- any 16:9 is output as anamorphic video.

Is that why my playback is warped? And if so, how do I fix it? Is that correctable in FCP?

Thanks

Guy Barwood · November 7th, 2005, 04:32 AM

you can't fix what isn't broken, but if you want a letterboxed 16:9 on a 4:3 display you'll need to apply a vertical compression in your NLE to the clip to change this aspect ratio.

John Mitchell · November 7th, 2005, 07:21 AM

There is a second option that Steve alluded to - a 4 x 3 monitor is a standard def monitor so you can compress your square pixel 1280 x 720 frame into anamorphic 16 x 9 standard DV (720 x 576 PAL or 720 x 480 NTSC) within your NLE (this is essentially what the camera is doing on SD analogue out) - your monitor would play this correctly if you transfer to a 16 x 9 DVD - the DVD player will handle the anamorphic stretch for you.

That's a lot of mucking around if all you need to do is check an HD edit or shots, but unless you own a broadcast monitor with 16x9 switching your stuck. Realistically if you want to work in 16x9 square pixel HD you need an HD display device which is normally native 16x9 or very close.

There are lots of threads on suitable monitors around here - do a search for some quality recommendations.

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

There is a second option that Steve alluded to - a 4 x 3 monitor is a standard def monitor so you can compress your square pixel 1280 x 720 frame into anamorphic 16 x 9 standard DV (720 x 576 PAL or 720 x 480 NTSC) within your NLE (this is essentially what the camera is doing on SD analogue out) - your monitor would play this correctly if you transfer to a 16 x 9 DVD - the DVD player will handle the anamorphic stretch for you.

That's a lot of mucking around if all you need to do is check an HD edit or shots, but unless you own a broadcast monitor with 16x9 switching your stuck. Realistically if you want to work in 16x9 square pixel HD you need an HD display device which is normally native 16x9 or very close.

There are lots of threads on suitable monitors around here - do a search for some quality recommendations.

Thanks,

Can you recommend a monitor that will show the wide screen playback that is affordable?

Duke

Tim Dashwood · November 7th, 2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Duke

Thanks,

Can you recommend a monitor that will show the wide screen playback that is affordable?

Duke

I just glanced at bestbuy's website and found a few options for affordable portable monitoring:

LCD 16x9 SD (downconverted by camera):

Magnavox 17" LCD $479
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1099389620618

Trinity 7" LCD $169
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1118843366546

4x3 NTSC TVs with 16x9 letterbox mode:
Sony 20" FD Trinitron $199
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1077628470204

Toshiba 20" FST Pure Flat tube $199 (I own this one and use it for client monitoring)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1099390204250

Toshiba 14" version of above $139
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1099390204094

HD LCD 16x9:
Toshiba 20" HD LCD with HD component input (Toshiba calls it "colorstream") $799
This one also has HDMI input if you plan to buy the BR-50 deck.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1115364338422

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 03:56 PM

Forgive me Tim, but I am not an expert on this so I hope my questions are not dumb, but will either of these monitors playback the widescreen (16:9) when recording and playing? Or do I have to convert the footage first? Still not sure.

For some reason when I see major motion picture productions they always seem to be using a little monitor. is that becuase of the colors? Will the above monitors show the correct colors? So far my monitor doesn't show the colors correctly. I have a regular Audiovox, which really sucks!

As always, you are a great help =)

Tim Dashwood · November 7th, 2005, 06:33 PM

All of the above TV/monitors will work straight out of the camera - even in the field. They are either true 16x9 widescreen, or will letterbox within a 4x3 at the push of a button. No post production necessary.

Personally though, if you are going to start shooting and posting in HD, I would invest in HD. The last one on the list is about as affordable as you'll find for LCD 720P HD. You can find some 26" 16x9 CRT monitors for a little less.

The reason you see 9" monitors on set all the time is because they are very portable. However, they are also professional grade monitors that will give you a very true representation of the final image. You can rent 9" HD monitors like this for around $150/day. 20" HD client monitors can be rented for around $250/day.

Modern consumer TVs have quite a bit of image control, but will never look as good as professional monitors. However, the advantage is that if you calibrate it to bars as well as you can, then it will look fairly close to what the end consumer sitting in his livingroom is going to see.

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

All of the above TV/monitors will work straight out of the camera - even in the field. They are either true 16x9 widescreen, or will letterbox within a 4x3 at the push of a button. No post production necessary.

Personally though, if you are going to start shooting and posting in HD, I would invest in HD. The last one on the list is about as affordable as you'll find for LCD 720P HD. You can find some 26" 16x9 CRT monitors for a little less.

The reason you see 9" monitors on set all the time is because they are very portable. However, they are also professional grade monitors that will give you a very true representation of the final image. You can rent 9" HD monitors like this for around $150/day. 20" HD client monitors can be rented for around $250/day.

Modern consumer TVs have quite a bit of image control, but will never look as good as professional monitors. However, the advantage is that if you calibrate it to bars as well as you can, then it will look fairly close to what the end consumer sitting in his livingroom is going to see.

What would be the most affordable monitor that come close to getting the true representation of the final image? or are they just ridiculous in price? Any brand name and model number so I can perhpas get one used on ebay.

I foudn thsi one, but is that the correct one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/JVC-PRO-9-COLOR-...QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks Tim

Duke

Jiri Bakala · November 7th, 2005, 07:55 PM

Brian, that's not HD, sorry. Actually I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the JVC DT-V100CGU?

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/s...&feature_id=03

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

Brian, that's not HD, sorry. Actually I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the JVC DT-V100CGU?

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/s...&feature_id=03

So if I don't get an HD monitor I won't have a proper image?

Its $1099, which is not bad at B&H photo. Will it show 16:9 playback and record too? I could not find anything on that.

Thanks

Jiri Bakala · November 7th, 2005, 08:10 PM

No Brian,

you can get 16x9 on an SD monitor, sorry, maybe I didn't understand exactly what you needed. However, since the HD100 is a high def camera you may want to consider an HD monitor. The LCDs that Tim suggested were (I think all) HD.

You are basically looking at two things:
1. HD vs. SD
2. The capability of switching between 16x9 and 4x3

Brian Duke · November 7th, 2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

No Brian,

you can get 16x9 on an SD monitor, sorry, maybe I didn't understand exactly what you needed. However, since the HD100 is a high def camera you may want to consider an HD monitor. The LCDs that Tim suggested were (I think all) HD.

You are basically looking at two things:
1. HD vs. SD
2. The capability of switching between 16x9 and 4x3

I assume the JVC Professional DT-V100CGU Monitor will accomplish oth the switch between 4:3 and 16:9 and also playback HDTV images from the camera. Looks pretty good to me =) But I am anew to this, so what do I know

November 6th, 2005, 07:24 PM	#1
Brian Duke Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 899	Letterbox on HD100U How do I get the letterbox to appear when I play back on my monitor? I shot some stuff in 24P HDV and when I pleayed it back on my TV it looked great but the image was a bit warped and no letterbox showed up despite the fact that I recorded it in 16:9. Also, how do I get REALLY wide shot letterbox. I.e. wider than 16:9? 16:9 doesn't seem to be that wide. I just watched Star Wars and it was shot on the Sony f900 and they got a much wider shot. granted they used a more expensive camera, but there has to be some way to get a wider letter box on screen. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

November 6th, 2005, 07:49 PM	#2
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	I don't believe that the camera has an option of 'letterboxed' output (please, correct me if I am wrong). As for the usual path, it's done in your editor (FCP, Avid, etc.), by resizing the timeline to 'letterboxed', which is about 75-77% top to bottom. Same goes for shooting in wider aspect ratios, such as 2.35:1, etc. You would shoot it in 'regular' 16x9 (1.78:1) but frame for 2.35:1, using a monitor with accurately taped top and bottom. You could do that with the LCD screen of the camera as well. Later, when all is edited and ready for output to tape/DVD/whatever, the entire timeline is cropped to the required aspect ratio. Hope this helps. __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 7th, 2005, 01:28 AM	#3
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Correct -- any 16:9 is output as anamorphic video. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

November 7th, 2005, 07:55 PM	#12
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	Brian, that's not HD, sorry. Actually I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the JVC DT-V100CGU? http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/s...&feature_id=03 __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 7th, 2005, 08:10 PM	#14
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	No Brian, you can get 16x9 on an SD monitor, sorry, maybe I didn't understand exactly what you needed. However, since the HD100 is a high def camera you may want to consider an HD monitor. The LCDs that Tim suggested were (I think all) HD. You are basically looking at two things: 1. HD vs. SD 2. The capability of switching between 16x9 and 4x3 __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

November 7th, 2005, 04:32 AM	#5
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	you can't fix what isn't broken, but if you want a letterboxed 16:9 on a 4:3 display you'll need to apply a vertical compression in your NLE to the clip to change this aspect ratio.

November 7th, 2005, 07:21 AM	#6
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	There is a second option that Steve alluded to - a 4 x 3 monitor is a standard def monitor so you can compress your square pixel 1280 x 720 frame into anamorphic 16 x 9 standard DV (720 x 576 PAL or 720 x 480 NTSC) within your NLE (this is essentially what the camera is doing on SD analogue out) - your monitor would play this correctly if you transfer to a 16 x 9 DVD - the DVD player will handle the anamorphic stretch for you. That's a lot of mucking around if all you need to do is check an HD edit or shots, but unless you own a broadcast monitor with 16x9 switching your stuck. Realistically if you want to work in 16x9 square pixel HD you need an HD display device which is normally native 16x9 or very close. There are lots of threads on suitable monitors around here - do a search for some quality recommendations.

November 7th, 2005, 03:56 PM	#9
Brian Duke Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Hollywood, California Posts: 899	Forgive me Tim, but I am not an expert on this so I hope my questions are not dumb, but will either of these monitors playback the widescreen (16:9) when recording and playing? Or do I have to convert the footage first? Still not sure. For some reason when I see major motion picture productions they always seem to be using a little monitor. is that becuase of the colors? Will the above monitors show the correct colors? So far my monitor doesn't show the colors correctly. I have a regular Audiovox, which really sucks! As always, you are a great help =)

November 7th, 2005, 06:33 PM	#10
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	All of the above TV/monitors will work straight out of the camera - even in the field. They are either true 16x9 widescreen, or will letterbox within a 4x3 at the push of a button. No post production necessary. Personally though, if you are going to start shooting and posting in HD, I would invest in HD. The last one on the list is about as affordable as you'll find for LCD 720P HD. You can find some 26" 16x9 CRT monitors for a little less. The reason you see 9" monitors on set all the time is because they are very portable. However, they are also professional grade monitors that will give you a very true representation of the final image. You can rent 9" HD monitors like this for around $150/day. 20" HD client monitors can be rented for around $250/day. Modern consumer TVs have quite a bit of image control, but will never look as good as professional monitors. However, the advantage is that if you calibrate it to bars as well as you can, then it will look fairly close to what the end consumer sitting in his livingroom is going to see.