PCIe Cards/24p & the perfect camera

[John Benton]

Ah, the questions of a newborn...

So I wonder about better PCIe cards for the new PowerMacs...
http://aja.com/products_kona.html
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/

1a)How critical is it to have one of these cards in your Machine for intake & output when using the HD100?
1b)Note: I am on an old 17" 133 w/ ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 at the moment, can I start to work with the camera? At 24p with Lumiere?

2) There was a recent upgrade to Apple's Pro apps... Does Final Cut support 24p yet (or only with Lumiere)?

3) Sorry I keep hearing that I should wait another 6mos and the next gen of the HD100 series will be out (better lenses? 1080? etc) but probably cost a good deal more (1080 I would luff a lot)...maybe there is just no real answer to this question, but I keep walking into B&H about to pull the credit card out when the salesman says "wait for Nab" or "sorry none in stock"

4) If I take a tape with me a record some footage on an HD100 how will it look if I play it back on a VX2000 through composites to a monitor (or could my machine ingest it through the Sony)?

As you can see I am poised for purchase (and yet the elements have sided against me...so far)

so Far...

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by John Benton

So I wonder about better PCIe cards for the new PowerMacs...
http://aja.com/products_kona.html
http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hd/

1a)How critical is it to have one of these cards in your Machine for intake & output when using the HD100?

Not critical. Firewire will allow you to digitize the native 19.2Mb/sec Mpeg2 transport stream from the camera and convert it to any codec you want. The advantage of using an analog digitizer with the camera is that you can ingest uncompressed 720P60 straight into FCP using 8-bit or 10-bit uncompressed codecs in real-time.

1b)Note: I am on an old 17" 133 w/ ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 at the moment, can I start to work with the camera? At 24p with Lumiere?

I thought all 17" models had a 166Mhz bus speed? Maybe you meant the 1.33Ghz model? Either way you will be able to digitize via firewire and work with your files in another codec, but you probably won't be able to playback the native 720P m2t files without dropping some frames. Decompressing the stream without dropping frames actually takes alot of processing power. I have a dual 1.2Ghz and I can't play a steady 720P60 stream without dropping. However, once you convert it to a different codec (even uncompressed from your internal HD) it should play no problem.

2) There was a recent upgrade to Apple's Pro apps... Does Final Cut support 24p yet (or only with Lumiere)?

At the moment, it will digitize material recorded in 720P30 via firewire. Lumiere HD is required to work with 720P24 footage because it is currently the only software that can remove the pulldown frames and create new 720P24. Unfortunately, it is not the ideal workflow. I hope this all gets worked soon between Apple and JVC.

3) Sorry I keep hearing that I should wait another 6mos and the next gen of the HD100 series will be out (better lenses? 1080? etc) but probably cost a good deal more (1080 I would luff a lot)...maybe there is just no real answer to this question, but I keep walking into B&H about to pull the credit card out when the salesman says "wait for Nab" or "sorry none in stock"

You will always hear that about any camera, but it is irrelevant if you need the camera now. I bought a DVX100 when it came out and then was a little peeved when the DVX100A was released. However, it didn't make the DVX100 any less useful than it was before, and it had already paid for itself twice over.

4) If I take a tape with me a record some footage on an HD100 how will it look if I play it back on a VX2000 through composites to a monitor (or could my machine ingest it through the Sony)?

Only if you record in DV mode.

[John Benton]

Thanks Tim,

1a - The power of the Kona and Black magic is basically really pulling the footage in uncompressed then, which I can see an advantage to eventually...but not yet
1b - yes 133 Ghz

2 - oh well, Lumiere is 200$ (and only, let's hope, a few months before FCP does 24p)

3 - yes, I had a feeling that would be the answer - and it is all the encouragement I need,

However,
I am still a little lost on the difference between the GY-HD100u and the GY-HD101....(I know the GY-HD100e is PAL)
?????


Thank You !
John

[Stephen L. Noe]

The "u" is NTSC (M and MJ)
The "e" is PAL 1394 Output only
The "101" is PAL with 1394 I/O

The 101 and "U" are equivalent except one is PAL and one is NTSC.

I'm pretty sure that's correct...

[John Benton]

Thanks Stephen

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by John Benton

1a - The power of the Kona and Black magic is basically really pulling the footage in uncompressed then, which I can see an advantage to eventually...but not yet
1b - yes 133 Ghz

I bought a BM HD Pro just for the sole purpose of being able to monitor...I won't use it for output because it's cheaper to drive a few miles and rent a suite to output to Digibeta or HDCAM than to rent a deck and bring it home.

The HD Pro with component out is the only way to get an accurate signal to CC with.

[John Benton]

thank You Nate

[Barry Green]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

I'm pretty sure that's correct...

Yes it is. The cameras are sort of universal but not, in that in DV mode they're strictly PAL or NTSC, but in HDV mode (including the "SD" HDV mode) they're universal. So you can shoot 576/50p in MPEG2 on the 100U, and you can shoot 480/60p in MPEG2 on the 100E/101E. However, you cannot shoot PAL DV on the 100U, nor can you shoot NTSC DV on the 100E/101.

So they're universal to a degree: all models feature 720/24p, 720/25p, 720/30p, 576/50p and 480/60p.

Then they're pal/ntsc specific in that the 100U offers 480/24p and 480/60i in DV mode; the 100E/101E offer 576/25p and 576/50i in DV mode.

Furthermore, the difference between the 100E and 101E is that the 100E is firewire-output only, the 101E is firewire input/output (and a little more expensive).

[Yusuf Thakur]

3) Sorry I keep hearing that I should wait another 6mos and the next gen of the HD100 series will be out (better lenses? 1080? etc) but probably cost a good deal more (1080 I would luff a lot)...maybe there is just no real answer to this question, but I keep walking into B&H about to pull the credit card out when the salesman says "wait for Nab" or "sorry none in stock"

The answer is simple do you need HD/HDV now, will you make money or recover your investment in 6 months, one year, two years. There will always be something better, not ness cheaper, maybe even cheaper, but even if there was
would you use your present tools, or the one you would buy
to create something thats worth far more. My advise buy what you need now, and only if you are going to use it create anthing that you feel good about or generate an
income. We have been using a Varicam for more than a year and a half, the cost of a Varicam Kit with HD lens approx US 55000-80000/- depending on lens, monitors, etc. Cost of HD100 with standard lens US5000-5500. Will
you get imagery of one tenth the quality of the Varicam from the HD100, its a very simple answer again. Yes you would get picture quality that can intercut between both and except for the man who shot/edited it would be very difficult to tell which was which. Have we tried this yes we have. But two years back there was no HD100 only the Varicam, will the HD100 do everything that the Varicam can, NO it cant do lot of things that the Varicam can, and one them is its Variable frame rate.

Do we still use both yes we do, and will continue to do so
till they serve a purpose. Soory for the long sermon, but the only time it will be the the right time is when YOU NEED IT.

back

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

The "u" is NTSC (M and MJ)
The "e" is PAL 1394 Output only
The "101" is PAL with 1394 I/O

The 101 and "U" are equivalent except one is PAL and one is NTSC.

I'm pretty sure that's correct...

Oops - wrong way around Stephen. The "101e" has 1394 I/O the "101" is 1394 output only.

[Tommy James]

Actually the JVC HD100 offers better spatial resolution (1280 x 720) than the Panasonic Varicam (960 x 720). Of course the Panasonic has good temporal resolution and can shoot 60 frames per secound.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by John Mitchell

Oops - wrong way around Stephen. The "101e" has 1394 I/O the "101" is 1394 output only.

John, Thanks for helping on that. I'd change it but I guess you can't edit your messages like you used to since the website changeover.

best,

[John Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

John, Thanks for helping on that. I'd change it but I guess you can't edit your messages like you used to since the website changeover.

best,

Yeah you seem to be able to edit them immediately after posting but can't come back to them later.

[David Newman]

Originally Posted by Tommy James

Actually the JVC HD100 offers better spatial resolution (1280 x 720) than the Panasonic Varicam (960 x 720). Of course the Panasonic has good temporal resolution and can shoot 60 frames per secound.

The JVC HD100 also happily shoots at 60p, 50p and as I've recently discovered, 48p. Read about here : http://cineform.blogspot.com/2005/10...ame-rates.html. Of course you need to capture the analog outputs to do this, but it is a good solution for those who want full res. 60p and no MPEG2 or DVCPRO_HD compression.

[Stephen L. Noe]

David,

You're finding all kinds of nuggets with the HD-100.