Final Cut Pro 5 and SD60 capture from hd100 at DVinfo.net

Michael Orourke · October 22nd, 2005, 09:00 PM

I shot some footage HDV-SD60p, appears that Final Cut Pro 5 (nor Avid xpress HD) support this video format. Does anyone have experience/information on a workaround to capture this format to FCP 5? tried to record from one HD100u to another using the record trigger but I have only been able to record to the other camera at the original format. Any ideas, thanks.

Nate Weaver · October 22nd, 2005, 11:22 PM

Do a search here on DVInfo...both myself and Tim Dashwood have been able to make things happen in different ways using iMovie, DVHSCAP, and MPEGSTREAMCLIP.

Tim Dashwood · October 22nd, 2005, 11:40 PM

480p60 is actually a "HDV" format in the sense that it is still an MPEG2 transport stream and not recorded in the DV codec. This is why most NLEs don't recognize it (yet.)

Both DVHSCap and HDVxDV will capture an mpeg2 transport stream regardless of dimensions or frame rate. It maintains native format and can then be opened in MPEG streamclip and converted to a normal quicktime format (DVCPRO, INTERMEDIATE, DV, etc). (BTW, 60P is actually 59.94 fps.)

If you want to work with this file as a normal 24P or 30P that was "overcranked" slo-mo, then open the clip in Cinema Tools and "CONFORM" the clip to 23.98fps or 29.97fps. CT simply tells the quicktime file that it is now to run the file at a different frame rate, and you have slow motion!
No rendering.

Matt Davis · October 23rd, 2005, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

If you want to work with this file as a normal 24P or 30P that was "overcranked" slo-mo, then open the clip in Cinema Tools and "CONFORM" the clip to 23.98fps or 29.97fps.

This is interesting - over here in PAL land, I tried using DVHSCap and MPEGStreamClip to transcode to AIC, and got a mov that was 50fps (the m2t seemed to be flagged as such) - and as I couldn't set FCP's timeline to 50fps, I got the red render bar.

So on reading your post, I reinstalled CT and set the mov to 25fps.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that it now plays at half the speed... Have I got the wrong end of the stick, or just completely the wrong stick? ;)

Tim Dashwood · October 23rd, 2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

This is interesting - over here in PAL land, I tried using DVHSCap and MPEGStreamClip to transcode to AIC, and got a mov that was 50fps (the m2t seemed to be flagged as such) - and as I couldn't set FCP's timeline to 50fps, I got the red render bar.

So on reading your post, I reinstalled CT and set the mov to 25fps.

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that it now plays at half the speed... Have I got the wrong end of the stick, or just completely the wrong stick? ;)

Matt,

It is behaving exactly as expected. Remember that HDV576p50 captures 50fps, not 25 interlaced fps (50i PAL.) If you need to work with footage you have already shot in this format, then just make a new sequence 50fps.(frame rate changes in FCP sequence settings are not allowed once clips are edited into a sequence.) You can convert it back to PAL 50i when you are finished.
Otherwise, if all you wanted was normal interlaced PAL look, then you should have shot 50i DV mode.

Another quicky option to just work in PAL from your 576p50 footage would be to digitize from the analog outs via a decklink, kona, aurora igniter, etc., and let the camera do a 50P to PAL 50i downconvert.

Michael Orourke · October 23rd, 2005, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the responses, that is quite interesting that this format hdv sd60 can be used with a conversion in cinema tools to 29.97fps to do slow motion without rendering, but my issue is getting this footage ingested first and playback at 'normal' rate. How do I bring the footage into my FCP5 NLE to change the frame rate in cinema tools I also did not understand the reference to DVHSCap and HDVxDV, and how can imovie work in this case? (I also am setting up a PC based Avid xpress HD as an alternate to FCP 5, anyone using this new software yet?, might there be a workaround with this software for my issue?...ability to combine multiple resolutions in the timeline is a great feature by the way) Thanks for all your advice.

Tim Dashwood · October 23rd, 2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Orourke

How do I bring the footage into my FCP5 NLE to change the frame rate in cinema tools I also did not understand the reference to DVHSCap and HDVxDV, and how can imovie work in this case?

iMovie won't help you with your current problem.

Michael, use the following to solve your 480P60 to NTSC 60i woes, and Matt do the same with 576P50 to PAL 50i:

Go here to download HDVxDV. You can download the demo version and see if it helps you before you buy.
http://www.hdvxdv.com/

Alternatively, you can download its ancestor DVHSCap from here:
ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Develo...SDK19e.dmg.bin
It is part of the Firewire SDK19, so you need to install it and then find the app. Personally, I would stick with HDVxDV because it will show you the clips it digitizes.

Now download MPEGStreamclip from here:
http://www.alfanet.it/squared5/mpegstreamclip.html

Capture your clips using HDVxDV (or DVHSCap) and save them to a folder on your Hard Drive. This should be self-explanatory, but make sure the HDV/DV switch on the camera is set to HDV.
Open Mpegstreamclip and select "Batch List" from the "List" menu and then click "Add files" and SHIFT or CMD click the m2t files you digitized in HDVxDV.
MPEGStreamclip will ask you what you want to do with the files. Select "Export to DV," then create a new folder called "converted PAL DV" or "converted to NTSC-DV." (depending on if you are Matt or Michael respectively.)
Then the DV exporter option window will pop up. DV25 is already selected as codec, so just select your country's standard - PAL or NTSC.
You can also try some other options here like "resample audio at 48Khz" or "interlaced scaling" and test the results.
Click "To Batch" when you are ready, and then hit GO.
Now just import your converted DV folder into FCP and you should have nice DV files (NTSC or PAL) to work with. You may have to checkmark the "anamorphic" column in FCP - or just select all the clips and right click one of the clips in anamorphic and select "yes."

EDIT: I just tested the method and it seemed use simple math to skip every other frame hence create PAL 25P or NTSC 30P. Mpeg streamclip doesn't "mix" 2 frames into a single interlaced frame to create the hyper-real look of interlaced. So once again, in the future, if you want the interlaced look in PAL or NTSC, shoot in interlaced DV mode.

Quote:

(I also am setting up a PC based Avid xpress HD as an alternate to FCP 5, anyone using this new software yet?, might there be a workaround with this software for my issue?

I'm sure you will have the same issues with AVid. The problem really isn't with the NLE. 480P60 and 576p50 m2t streams aren't standardized formats.

Michael Orourke · October 23rd, 2005, 05:59 PM

thanks very much for the specific info, will be tackling the issue shortly. This board is a fantastic resource, there is so much to learn about the HDV format and JVC's implementation of HDV specific to the HD100u, which have exceeded our expectations in terms of image quality. I hope the NLE software vendors are looking at this board.

October 22nd, 2005, 09:00 PM	#1
Michael Orourke Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	Final Cut Pro 5 and SD60 capture from hd100 I shot some footage HDV-SD60p, appears that Final Cut Pro 5 (nor Avid xpress HD) support this video format. Does anyone have experience/information on a workaround to capture this format to FCP 5? tried to record from one HD100u to another using the record trigger but I have only been able to record to the other camera at the original format. Any ideas, thanks. Last edited by Michael Orourke; October 22nd, 2005 at 10:15 PM.

October 22nd, 2005, 11:22 PM	#2
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Do a search here on DVInfo...both myself and Tim Dashwood have been able to make things happen in different ways using iMovie, DVHSCAP, and MPEGSTREAMCLIP. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

October 23rd, 2005, 02:22 PM	#6
Michael Orourke Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	cinema tools, imovie?, for hdv sd60p Thanks for the responses, that is quite interesting that this format hdv sd60 can be used with a conversion in cinema tools to 29.97fps to do slow motion without rendering, but my issue is getting this footage ingested first and playback at 'normal' rate. How do I bring the footage into my FCP5 NLE to change the frame rate in cinema tools I also did not understand the reference to DVHSCap and HDVxDV, and how can imovie work in this case? (I also am setting up a PC based Avid xpress HD as an alternate to FCP 5, anyone using this new software yet?, might there be a workaround with this software for my issue?...ability to combine multiple resolutions in the timeline is a great feature by the way) Thanks for all your advice.

October 23rd, 2005, 05:59 PM	#8
Michael Orourke Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3	thanks for info thanks very much for the specific info, will be tackling the issue shortly. This board is a fantastic resource, there is so much to learn about the HDV format and JVC's implementation of HDV specific to the HD100u, which have exceeded our expectations in terms of image quality. I hope the NLE software vendors are looking at this board.

October 22nd, 2005, 11:40 PM	#3
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	480p60 is actually a "HDV" format in the sense that it is still an MPEG2 transport stream and not recorded in the DV codec. This is why most NLEs don't recognize it (yet.) Both DVHSCap and HDVxDV will capture an mpeg2 transport stream regardless of dimensions or frame rate. It maintains native format and can then be opened in MPEG streamclip and converted to a normal quicktime format (DVCPRO, INTERMEDIATE, DV, etc). (BTW, 60P is actually 59.94 fps.) If you want to work with this file as a normal 24P or 30P that was "overcranked" slo-mo, then open the clip in Cinema Tools and "CONFORM" the clip to 23.98fps or 29.97fps. CT simply tells the quicktime file that it is now to run the file at a different frame rate, and you have slow motion! No rendering.