FILMOUT Gamma at DVinfo.net

Steve Mullen · October 9th, 2005, 09:31 PM

Many cameras offer all sorts if "Cine" modes that alter gamma so that, at worst, the pix looks less like "video" and, at best, more like "film." These Cine gamma settings are useless for those who want to actually transfer video to film.

The correct gamma for video that will be transferred to film is very linear. Through the majority of the light range, there should be a 1:1 relation between changes in light and the output signal. This is NOT the case with video gamma or any the "pseudo film" gammas.

Technically, the majority of the video should lie between the "toe" and "sholder" of the film stock.

The HD100 provides just this type of gamma called FILMOUT. You should use this setting if you plan to transfer your video film. (I uderstand that a film maker in CA was part of the process of actually developing the curve.)

Using this gamma will result in images that look very different than any you are used to seeing! They can be correctly viewed only on monitors that have a special film-mode that modifies the gamma of the signal to that which represents the way the video will look when transferred to film.

This has a major impact on how you shoot (LCD and VF) and color correct! Moreover, any video productions created before the transfer to film will need to be gamma corrected so the video will look like the film will look.

These are non trival problems to solve, but when folks want to shoot film using a video camera -- this is the challenge they are undertaking.

P.S., Panasonic offers such monitors because their Varicam offer three types of gamma just like the HD100: Video (STANDARD), film look (CINELIKE), and film (FILMOUT).

You will likely create a custom Color Matrix for use with FILMOUT gamma. Creating this Matrix is like choosing the film you would use were you shooting film.

Anyone who has used a Varicam -- please post your experiences!
__________________

Gary McClurg · October 9th, 2005, 11:20 PM

A question, then what would happen if you shoot you're project as a possible film out and you don't get a film out can you still play with the gamma in post?

Steve Mullen · October 9th, 2005, 11:53 PM

One one of the other sites they have measured and display the FILMOUT curve.

I assume -- hope -- that one can create a "video" curve with an NLE color corrector.

I'm much more concerned that the LCD/VF don't have a FILMOUT gamma corrector! That means a seperate monitor -- as below:

BT-LH1700W
17" Widescreen BT Series Multi-Format Color Production Monitor

The BT-LH1700W 17" widescreen production-quality monitor features two auto-switching SDI / HD-SDI inputs, waveform monitoring, and freeze frame/split screen functions. Desk stand is included.

• High-speed response - no blurring thanks to our overdrive circuit

• Industry's lowest delay - Image Processing Circuit (I/P conversion algorithm)

• Waveform monitor - a superimposed function that graphically displays luminance levels from zero to 110 IRE in any of the monitor?s four corners

• Freeze frame / split screen - frame grab for scene comparison and critical color matching

• Two dual-rate SDI HD or SD inputs - (one with Thru-Out) with auto sensing

• Component Input on BNC connectors - Y, Pb, Pr and PC RGB inputs

• Faithful color reproduction - closely matches chromatic ranges of CRT monitors

• Diagonal line compensation - smoothes out "jaggies" for improved SD response

• WXGA resolution (1280 x 768)

• 176 degree viewing angle up/down and left/right

• One-piece design - no umbilical cord or separate AC power supply

• Frame marker lines - 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1 or background shading at 0%, 50%, or 100%

• Amplified stereo speakers - two RCA pin jacks input or optional de-embedded audio on SDI

• AC or DC power - 117 Volt AC or 12 Volt DC inputs (4-pin XLR)

• Color temperature selection - D9300K / D6500K / D5600K / User Settable

>>>>>>>>>>> • CineGammaTM (FILM-REC) compensation - expressly for VariCam monitoring <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

• Desk stand included

U.S. List Price $3,400.00

--------------------

BT-LH900
8.4" BT Series Multi-Format Color LCD Monitor

U.S. List Price $4,890.00
The Panasonic BT-LH900 BT Series Multi-Format Color LCD Monitor greatly simplifies HD and SD monitoring on location or on a sound stage. With its slim 2.5-inch profile and light 4.4 lbs. weight, the HD/SD compatible BT-LH900 takes full advantage of the LCD panel's space-saving design. The BT-LH900 is energy efficient by consuming less power that a conventional CRT HD monitor. And DC operation makes the BT-LH900 ideal for outdoors applications.

The BT-LH900 is equipped with two SDI inputs automatically detecting HD or SD on the inputs, one component input (Y/Pb/Pr or RGBS), and one composite input. The new Video/CineGamma Conversion Table and built-in waveform monitor function support HD production when using the popular Panasonic VariCam HD Cinema Camera. It easily mounts atop the VariCam and other cameras as well. Also convenient is the separate control panel that can be mounted on the top, side, or bottom of the monitor. Designed for side-by-side rack mounting (optional) and equipped with both DC input and AntonBauer Gold Mount, the BT-LH900 brings the same high level of performance and convenience to OB vans and studio/control rooms.

The 170-degree viewing angle, both horizontally and vertically, provides for high-brightness, high-contrast viewing that minimizes color variation and ensures sharp images.

• Lightweight at 4.4 lbs, compact size of 8-9/16" (W) x 6-15/16" (H) x 2-7/16" (D)

• 8.4" screen size, 4:3 aspect ratio, 1024x768 (XGA) panel

• Approx. 16.77 million colors

• Selectable color temperatures

• Multi-format: 1080/24/25P, 1080/60/50i, 720p. 576i and 480i/p auto selectable

• Real-time waveform monitoring function in 16x9 mode

• Detachable control panel

• Independent control knobs for brightness, contrast, chroma, peaking/phase

• Power requirements: DC12V (11-17V) 22.8W includes low battery warning

>>>>> • Built-in CineGammaTM table for use with AJ-HDC27 VariCam® <<<<<<<<<<

• Equipped with marker, underscan and blue-only functions

• Five user mode settings can be saved and recalled

October 9th, 2005, 09:31 PM	#1
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	FILMOUT Gamma Many cameras offer all sorts if "Cine" modes that alter gamma so that, at worst, the pix looks less like "video" and, at best, more like "film." These Cine gamma settings are useless for those who want to actually transfer video to film. The correct gamma for video that will be transferred to film is very linear. Through the majority of the light range, there should be a 1:1 relation between changes in light and the output signal. This is NOT the case with video gamma or any the "pseudo film" gammas. Technically, the majority of the video should lie between the "toe" and "sholder" of the film stock. The HD100 provides just this type of gamma called FILMOUT. You should use this setting if you plan to transfer your video film. (I uderstand that a film maker in CA was part of the process of actually developing the curve.) Using this gamma will result in images that look very different than any you are used to seeing! They can be correctly viewed only on monitors that have a special film-mode that modifies the gamma of the signal to that which represents the way the video will look when transferred to film. This has a major impact on how you shoot (LCD and VF) and color correct! Moreover, any video productions created before the transfer to film will need to be gamma corrected so the video will look like the film will look. These are non trival problems to solve, but when folks want to shoot film using a video camera -- this is the challenge they are undertaking. P.S., Panasonic offers such monitors because their Varicam offer three types of gamma just like the HD100: Video (STANDARD), film look (CINELIKE), and film (FILMOUT). You will likely create a custom Color Matrix for use with FILMOUT gamma. Creating this Matrix is like choosing the film you would use were you shooting film. Anyone who has used a Varicam -- please post your experiences! __________________ __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 9th, 2005, 11:53 PM	#3
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	One one of the other sites they have measured and display the FILMOUT curve. I assume -- hope -- that one can create a "video" curve with an NLE color corrector. I'm much more concerned that the LCD/VF don't have a FILMOUT gamma corrector! That means a seperate monitor -- as below: BT-LH1700W 17" Widescreen BT Series Multi-Format Color Production Monitor The BT-LH1700W 17" widescreen production-quality monitor features two auto-switching SDI / HD-SDI inputs, waveform monitoring, and freeze frame/split screen functions. Desk stand is included. • High-speed response - no blurring thanks to our overdrive circuit • Industry's lowest delay - Image Processing Circuit (I/P conversion algorithm) • Waveform monitor - a superimposed function that graphically displays luminance levels from zero to 110 IRE in any of the monitor?s four corners • Freeze frame / split screen - frame grab for scene comparison and critical color matching • Two dual-rate SDI HD or SD inputs - (one with Thru-Out) with auto sensing • Component Input on BNC connectors - Y, Pb, Pr and PC RGB inputs • Faithful color reproduction - closely matches chromatic ranges of CRT monitors • Diagonal line compensation - smoothes out "jaggies" for improved SD response • WXGA resolution (1280 x 768) • 176 degree viewing angle up/down and left/right • One-piece design - no umbilical cord or separate AC power supply • Frame marker lines - 4:3, 16:9, 2.35:1 or background shading at 0%, 50%, or 100% • Amplified stereo speakers - two RCA pin jacks input or optional de-embedded audio on SDI • AC or DC power - 117 Volt AC or 12 Volt DC inputs (4-pin XLR) • Color temperature selection - D9300K / D6500K / D5600K / User Settable >>>>>>>>>>> • CineGammaTM (FILM-REC) compensation - expressly for VariCam monitoring <<<<<<<<<<<<<<< • Desk stand included U.S. List Price $3,400.00 -------------------- BT-LH900 8.4" BT Series Multi-Format Color LCD Monitor U.S. List Price $4,890.00 The Panasonic BT-LH900 BT Series Multi-Format Color LCD Monitor greatly simplifies HD and SD monitoring on location or on a sound stage. With its slim 2.5-inch profile and light 4.4 lbs. weight, the HD/SD compatible BT-LH900 takes full advantage of the LCD panel's space-saving design. The BT-LH900 is energy efficient by consuming less power that a conventional CRT HD monitor. And DC operation makes the BT-LH900 ideal for outdoors applications. The BT-LH900 is equipped with two SDI inputs automatically detecting HD or SD on the inputs, one component input (Y/Pb/Pr or RGBS), and one composite input. The new Video/CineGamma Conversion Table and built-in waveform monitor function support HD production when using the popular Panasonic VariCam HD Cinema Camera. It easily mounts atop the VariCam and other cameras as well. Also convenient is the separate control panel that can be mounted on the top, side, or bottom of the monitor. Designed for side-by-side rack mounting (optional) and equipped with both DC input and AntonBauer Gold Mount, the BT-LH900 brings the same high level of performance and convenience to OB vans and studio/control rooms. The 170-degree viewing angle, both horizontally and vertically, provides for high-brightness, high-contrast viewing that minimizes color variation and ensures sharp images. • Lightweight at 4.4 lbs, compact size of 8-9/16" (W) x 6-15/16" (H) x 2-7/16" (D) • 8.4" screen size, 4:3 aspect ratio, 1024x768 (XGA) panel • Approx. 16.77 million colors • Selectable color temperatures • Multi-format: 1080/24/25P, 1080/60/50i, 720p. 576i and 480i/p auto selectable • Real-time waveform monitoring function in 16x9 mode • Detachable control panel • Independent control knobs for brightness, contrast, chroma, peaking/phase • Power requirements: DC12V (11-17V) 22.8W includes low battery warning >>>>> • Built-in CineGammaTM table for use with AJ-HDC27 VariCam® <<<<<<<<<< • Equipped with marker, underscan and blue-only functions • Five user mode settings can be saved and recalled __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

October 9th, 2005, 11:20 PM	#2
Gary McClurg Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Springfield, MO, USA Posts: 389	A question, then what would happen if you shoot you're project as a possible film out and you don't get a film out can you still play with the gamma in post?