HD100U Split Screen Will Not Be Fixed?

Stephen L. Noe · October 8th, 2005, 11:38 PM

I wonder if the dealer would be kind enough to let you take the camera for a couple of days and test it out? That is par for the course over here (JVC and Sony).

Guy Barwood · October 8th, 2005, 11:58 PM

I'd be happy to try one for a wedding, I'd have to keep my DV cam handy though incase I need to switch back suddenly. I think I'd actually have someone shooting backup on DV for that job anyway. I'm up for the work and cost of paying someone for the day to shoot backup, but I doubt JVC are going to lend me a camera. My next video job of my own is on the 26 Nov.

Brian Duke · October 9th, 2005, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian E. Pearson

I agree with you Guy. I got this camera a few days ago and saw split screen in low light messing around with it right out of the box in my living room. Ive played around with it more in better lit situations and the split screen dissapears. I can live with that because pretty much all the work I will do will have controlled lighting. But it would really suck for someone who has to tape in low light. It is a serious flaw, and its bad business to continue to sell it without correcting the problem. This issue has definately tarnished the image (no pun intended) of a camera that could have been so great

Shes very wrong. There are other choices. Z1, FX1, HC1, XL-H1, HVX, and many excellent SD cameras in the same prosumer price range. So far, of the ones that are available, JVC is the only one with a serious flaw.

I agree with you 110%. Its ridiculous for JVC, cause I don 't really think she is speaking with all facts and data, to come out with a camera that has split screen in low light. They should fix it. I Still think the fcamera is great and I will make the most of it, and from what I've seen it really looks amazing.

Steve Connor · October 9th, 2005, 02:21 AM

I really can't believe this, the camera has a serious flaw that no other camera on the market has and JVC aren't going to fix it. It's OK to say that this camera will only be used by serious professionals who know how to light, but I'm a professional, I know how to light and there is no way I am going to buy a camera with such a flaw. Fact is sometimes you have to use gain, particularly in corporate work, where you aren't always in control of the lighting and I wouldn't consider going on a shoot knowing that there are some shots I couldn't get because of a fault on the camera.

I'm very disappointed as we are starting to shoot more drama at the moment and the JVC would have been a great B roll camera as it seems much more suitable than the Z1.

I know JVC are the "Rebels" against Sony's "Empire", but no matter how many people say this camera is acceptable, the fact is it's not.

If Sony had released a camera with such a problem the forums would be spewing hate as we speak.

One sale lost.

Werner Wesp · October 9th, 2005, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Connor

I'm very disappointed as we are starting to shoot more drama at the moment and the JVC would have been a great B roll camera as it seems much more suitable than the Z1.

So what's the problem? When shooting some serious drama, you have plenty of light AND plenty of time. You only need to know how to operate the cam then....

Werner Wesp · October 9th, 2005, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

The Z1 has 12% more pixels than JVCs camera, so clearly it is not a problem with getting out these pixels in the required time frame. Its the same number of pixels in the same time frame. 24p adds even more time to get the pixels out...

Try to do the math right... The SONY is INTERLACED, so it has to process (and 'read out') only half the pixels (i.e. data) per time-frame....

It is on average the same, but with twice the precision, you can easily calculate the JVC has to work twice as fast. (per 2 fields - 1 frame it is the same (1/25th of a second), but it is not quite the same at 1/50th of a second.)

Steve Connor · October 9th, 2005, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werner Wesp

So what's the problem? When shooting some serious drama, you have plenty of light AND plenty of time. You only need to know how to operate the cam then....

The thing is when I'm shooting serious Drama I use higher end cameras! HDV is pitched at the lower end of the filmmaking spectrum where correct lighting setups and time are not always available.

It would also have to do corporate work to pay its way, I agree if all you are shooting is well lit material then I'm sure the camera is very good and certainly the footage I've seen is amazing. But my experience over 15 years of shooting Corporate, Broadcast and film tells me there are times when you NEED gain, whether you like it or not and sometimes in situations where you did not expect it.

Having the restriction of not be able to use gain at all is a deal-breaker for me personally as far as buying one goes. However I'm sure I'll still be renting one when I know the shoot is fully controlled like studio based work.

I just don't think the whole situation is going to do JVC's reputation much good at all.

Andreas Fernbrant · October 9th, 2005, 06:19 AM

Perhaps something was lost in translation due to I'm not
being a native English reader or writer. But isn't this just ONE
person that told ONE person that the camera will not be replaced?
I've heard others say it will be replaced if it shows under 9db gain.
Others got theirs replaced no questions asked. And a lot
of people don't even have the problem.

I think it's unfair to base a decition on what one rep told
one person when there is contradicting statements from
other reps.

Perhaps I misread the thread or missed some information?
But I generally don't base my facts on what one rep said
when there a bunch saying otherwise.

Kind and friendly regards
Andreas

Steve Connor · October 9th, 2005, 06:32 AM

Fair point - I hope that rep was wrong!

Guy Barwood · October 9th, 2005, 07:02 AM

"Try to do the math right... The SONY is INTERLACED, so it has to process (and 'read out') only half the pixels (i.e. data) per time-frame...."

Interlaced is just half the pixels at twice the rate of progressive, same number of pixels per second though.

Werner Wesp · October 9th, 2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

"Try to do the math right... The SONY is INTERLACED, so it has to process (and 'read out') only half the pixels (i.e. data) per time-frame...."

Interlaced is just half the pixels at twice the rate of progressive, same number of pixels per second though.

So again:

It's twice as much in one period (and doing nothing in the other period). It is more problematic. What you are saying is that they are ON AVERAGE the same (in 1/25 of a second). On 1/50th of a second the JVC reads out the whole CCD or reads out nothing. And it is even faster then that, look at the shutter speeds:

e.g. shutter speed 1/1000th of a second: the sony needs to read out only half the pixels in that time-interval as the JVC does. You can understand that the JVC's method is a lot more straining.

Werner Wesp · October 9th, 2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Connor

The thing is when I'm shooting serious Drama I use higher end cameras!

You were talking about a great B-camcorder. During well lit serious drama it should be fine then...

David Dessel · October 9th, 2005, 08:35 AM

I do not have a split screen problem. When I purchased the camera from my dealer, we agreed that if there was one, the camera could be exchanged or returned. That pretty much covers it for me.

From this point forward, my company will be shooting all of our video projects with the JVC. We are now selling all of the other rigs we own. I hope that FCP and AVID will support the 720 24P mode in the very near future. I also, look forward to sharing information here other who are interested in getting the most from the camera.

-Dave Dessel

Stephen L. Noe · October 9th, 2005, 08:55 AM

Steve Connor,

Go try out the camera. The chatter on the forums is not sufficient to your own eye. I'd be surprised if you didn't like the camera right out of the gate and on into a relationship. Do you have a dealer nearby?

John Mitchell · October 9th, 2005, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

"Try to do the math right... The SONY is INTERLACED, so it has to process (and 'read out') only half the pixels (i.e. data) per time-frame...."

Interlaced is just half the pixels at twice the rate of progressive, same number of pixels per second though.

Guy the point is threefold - first of all Sony restricted the size of their sensor to 960 pixels wide x 1080. JVC claims that in one third inch CCDs, 1000 is the magic number where you need to scan the chip in two halves and they speculate that this is why Sony have restricted the width to 960 (I know you assumed that the chip was full 1920 x 1080 - no such luck amigo).

Secondly an interlaced camera scans the same number of pixels on AVERAGE as the progressive camera, BUT it doesn't have to scan the whole chip at one time (which is the killer according to JVC), only each alternate line (although it does have to do it twice as fast - but not in this case as I'll explain next).

Thirdly the JVC actually scans the CCD @ 50/60Hz which is why they include a 50/60 progressive mode for standard definition.

With so many sensors crammed on to such a small chip, heat is believed to be the major problem.

And the irony here is that Sony make the GY-HD100 CCD.

While technically JVC may have made a huge error here, I think it's patently unfair to accuse them of being technically incompetent. Out of all the Japanese electronic firms, JVC have on the engineering front been the most innovative. This is what got them into trouble here - being innovative. Sony on the other hand have a reputation for design stodginess that has justifiably built them an enviable field reputation.

I'm also of the opinion that what one rep said to one person is not a company position - to date there has been no official announcement from JVC on SSE.

October 9th, 2005, 08:35 AM	#28
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	I do not have the problem I do not have a split screen problem. When I purchased the camera from my dealer, we agreed that if there was one, the camera could be exchanged or returned. That pretty much covers it for me. From this point forward, my company will be shooting all of our video projects with the JVC. We are now selling all of the other rigs we own. I hope that FCP and AVID will support the 720 24P mode in the very near future. I also, look forward to sharing information here other who are interested in getting the most from the camera. -Dave Dessel

October 8th, 2005, 11:38 PM	#16
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	I wonder if the dealer would be kind enough to let you take the camera for a couple of days and test it out? That is par for the course over here (JVC and Sony).

October 8th, 2005, 11:58 PM	#17
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	I'd be happy to try one for a wedding, I'd have to keep my DV cam handy though incase I need to switch back suddenly. I think I'd actually have someone shooting backup on DV for that job anyway. I'm up for the work and cost of paying someone for the day to shoot backup, but I doubt JVC are going to lend me a camera. My next video job of my own is on the 26 Nov.

October 9th, 2005, 02:21 AM	#19
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	I really can't believe this, the camera has a serious flaw that no other camera on the market has and JVC aren't going to fix it. It's OK to say that this camera will only be used by serious professionals who know how to light, but I'm a professional, I know how to light and there is no way I am going to buy a camera with such a flaw. Fact is sometimes you have to use gain, particularly in corporate work, where you aren't always in control of the lighting and I wouldn't consider going on a shoot knowing that there are some shots I couldn't get because of a fault on the camera. I'm very disappointed as we are starting to shoot more drama at the moment and the JVC would have been a great B roll camera as it seems much more suitable than the Z1. I know JVC are the "Rebels" against Sony's "Empire", but no matter how many people say this camera is acceptable, the fact is it's not. If Sony had released a camera with such a problem the forums would be spewing hate as we speak. One sale lost.

October 9th, 2005, 06:19 AM	#23
Andreas Fernbrant Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Sweden - Helsingborg Posts: 283	Perhaps something was lost in translation due to I'm not being a native English reader or writer. But isn't this just ONE person that told ONE person that the camera will not be replaced? I've heard others say it will be replaced if it shows under 9db gain. Others got theirs replaced no questions asked. And a lot of people don't even have the problem. I think it's unfair to base a decition on what one rep told one person when there is contradicting statements from other reps. Perhaps I misread the thread or missed some information? But I generally don't base my facts on what one rep said when there a bunch saying otherwise. Kind and friendly regards Andreas

October 9th, 2005, 06:32 AM	#24
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	Fair point - I hope that rep was wrong!

October 9th, 2005, 07:02 AM	#25
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	"Try to do the math right... The SONY is INTERLACED, so it has to process (and 'read out') only half the pixels (i.e. data) per time-frame...." Interlaced is just half the pixels at twice the rate of progressive, same number of pixels per second though.

October 9th, 2005, 08:55 AM	#29
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Steve Connor, Go try out the camera. The chatter on the forums is not sufficient to your own eye. I'd be surprised if you didn't like the camera right out of the gate and on into a relationship. Do you have a dealer nearby?