Viewfinder question for those who already own a HD100

Nate Weaver · September 25th, 2005, 05:16 PM

When shooting HDCAM without a field monitor, the only way you have to judge focus is by the peaking on the viewfinder. The B&W crt finder, while showing oodles more lines of resolution than say, the HD100 finder, still doesn't even come close to showing what a camera like that records.

So it's still a little bit of a crapshoot, and eventually you learn to find the focus point in the middle of the peaking "peak" without the benefit of a field monitor.

The HD100, while having a horrible pixel count, still allows you to get good focus with Focus Assist. FA is just an evolution of peaking, but it's tuned really well...you have to play with it to fully appreciate it.

It still doesn't change the fact that the finder/LCD on the JVC is going to scare people by it's low pixel count. Once you get used to the idea that you can NOT count on the regular color image in the finder/LCD for focus, you'll be fine. I keep a hot finger on the FA button at all times.

Werner Wesp · September 25th, 2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I keep a hot finger on the FA button at all times.

So your 'return'-button on the lens is set to focus assist then as well?

Nate Weaver · September 25th, 2005, 05:28 PM

I tried to keep it clear for use as RET, but I'm finding I just need FA more, and for all ways that the camera gets held. So yeah, I recently put it on FA.

Werner Wesp · September 25th, 2005, 05:35 PM

By the way, I only tried it on blue, but you seriously need to get used to that. I thenik I'll switch to red because it's hopefully better visible...

Michael Maier · September 25th, 2005, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I tried to keep it clear for use as RET, but I'm finding I just need FA more, and for all ways that the camera gets held. So yeah, I recently put it on FA.

Is there a RET in the body as well? For those shooting with Mini35.

Nate Weaver · September 25th, 2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Is there a RET in the body as well? For those shooting with Mini35.

Nope. None.

Michael Maier · September 25th, 2005, 05:52 PM

What a pity :(

Diogo Athouguia · September 25th, 2005, 06:06 PM

I noticed a delay on both the viewfinder and LCD when making fast movements. I found it a bit anoying, does anyone else notice the same? About the resolution I think its ok, I would prefer a B&W CRT but the FA works just fine.

David Slingerland · September 27th, 2005, 07:11 AM

I disagree with most members here about the way the focus assist works. I have checked it and it also leaves a lot of lines on subjects/objects that are out of focus. So it is not easy to see what is in focus. And I do not mean the depth of field, I mean really stuff that is out of focus. It works that way because it looks for focus on lines. Test it for yourself put a man in front of luxaflex and you will notice the camera focus assist is telling you the focus is also on the window....This is ofcourse an easy example but any strong vertical/horizontal line will give you this problem. So the idea is right but it could work better and it would then not be so annoying to watch. That is for me also a big issue, there is already enough information coming through the viewfinder and all the red lines are not making it easier to concentrate on issues that are also important. On a good black and white viewfinder you can see much better what is in focus...Peaking works better, this system of jvc could work better...

Robert Castiglione · September 27th, 2005, 08:28 AM

I think the emphasis is the "assist" part of the focus assist. I only put it on occasionally when I am not sure that I have critical focus. I suppose it is indeed a bit of compromise because the cost of a professional viewfinder would be prohibitive.

I have noticed that it does not work all that well in lower light.

Nevertheless, I generally find it useful.

Rob

Michael Maier · September 27th, 2005, 04:24 PM

Something that just came to mind. How the focus assist works with a mini35?

Nate Weaver · September 27th, 2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Something that just came to mind. How the focus assist works with a mini35?

Works great. It's ABSOLUTELY necessary if you don't have a first class focus puller.

Trust me, I know this! :-)

Michael Maier · September 27th, 2005, 04:43 PM

Thanks Nate. That's great news. I almost thought it wouldn't work, because you are not really focusing the relay lens, but the one in front of the GG. For some reason I thought it could be a problem. Glad it's not :)

Barry Green · September 27th, 2005, 06:43 PM

No, it's not a problem. Focus Assist works by highlighting high-frequency detail, so whether it's coming from the mini35 or through the normal camera lens, what the CCDs see is equally applicable to Focus Assist.

September 27th, 2005, 07:11 AM	#24
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	I disagree with most members here about the way the focus assist works. I have checked it and it also leaves a lot of lines on subjects/objects that are out of focus. So it is not easy to see what is in focus. And I do not mean the depth of field, I mean really stuff that is out of focus. It works that way because it looks for focus on lines. Test it for yourself put a man in front of luxaflex and you will notice the camera focus assist is telling you the focus is also on the window....This is ofcourse an easy example but any strong vertical/horizontal line will give you this problem. So the idea is right but it could work better and it would then not be so annoying to watch. That is for me also a big issue, there is already enough information coming through the viewfinder and all the red lines are not making it easier to concentrate on issues that are also important. On a good black and white viewfinder you can see much better what is in focus...Peaking works better, this system of jvc could work better... __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

September 25th, 2005, 05:16 PM	#16
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	When shooting HDCAM without a field monitor, the only way you have to judge focus is by the peaking on the viewfinder. The B&W crt finder, while showing oodles more lines of resolution than say, the HD100 finder, still doesn't even come close to showing what a camera like that records. So it's still a little bit of a crapshoot, and eventually you learn to find the focus point in the middle of the peaking "peak" without the benefit of a field monitor. The HD100, while having a horrible pixel count, still allows you to get good focus with Focus Assist. FA is just an evolution of peaking, but it's tuned really well...you have to play with it to fully appreciate it. It still doesn't change the fact that the finder/LCD on the JVC is going to scare people by it's low pixel count. Once you get used to the idea that you can NOT count on the regular color image in the finder/LCD for focus, you'll be fine. I keep a hot finger on the FA button at all times.

September 25th, 2005, 05:28 PM	#18
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I tried to keep it clear for use as RET, but I'm finding I just need FA more, and for all ways that the camera gets held. So yeah, I recently put it on FA.

September 25th, 2005, 05:35 PM	#19
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	By the way, I only tried it on blue, but you seriously need to get used to that. I thenik I'll switch to red because it's hopefully better visible...

September 25th, 2005, 05:52 PM	#22
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	What a pity :(

September 25th, 2005, 06:06 PM	#23
Diogo Athouguia Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 282	I noticed a delay on both the viewfinder and LCD when making fast movements. I found it a bit anoying, does anyone else notice the same? About the resolution I think its ok, I would prefer a B&W CRT but the FA works just fine.

September 27th, 2005, 08:28 AM	#25
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	I think the emphasis is the "assist" part of the focus assist. I only put it on occasionally when I am not sure that I have critical focus. I suppose it is indeed a bit of compromise because the cost of a professional viewfinder would be prohibitive. I have noticed that it does not work all that well in lower light. Nevertheless, I generally find it useful. Rob

September 27th, 2005, 04:24 PM	#26
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Something that just came to mind. How the focus assist works with a mini35?

September 27th, 2005, 04:43 PM	#28
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Thanks Nate. That's great news. I almost thought it wouldn't work, because you are not really focusing the relay lens, but the one in front of the GG. For some reason I thought it could be a problem. Glad it's not :)

September 27th, 2005, 06:43 PM	#29
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	No, it's not a problem. Focus Assist works by highlighting high-frequency detail, so whether it's coming from the mini35 or through the normal camera lens, what the CCDs see is equally applicable to Focus Assist.