HD-100 - Low Light Sensitivity

Shawn Alyasiri · September 12th, 2005, 07:03 PM

Hi everyone. Thanks very much for all of your initial replies and posts in the first thread. It's getting a little long, so I thought I'd post a follow-up.

As what was expected with the HD chips, the camera will definitely have lower light sensitivity. I will need to test in some more 'real world' venues, however I did some final tests for now in my home tonight, pulling the light up and down (sorry, I don't have a light meter here).

The design of this camera is excellent in my opinion, and the menus are very nice. I basically set it up with an increased gamma & color gain, and set 2 of the 3 preset buttons to be 'Black Stretch 2' & 'Black Stretch 3'. I set the 3-way gain switch to be programmed at 0, 6 & 9db (you can set it in 3db increments - thanks JVC). Likewise, you can punch the shutter button and get 1/30th shutter, which you would want to monitor closely if using (rather than 1/60), but it does allow significantly more light in.

So - with these settings and 'quick buttons' to access, you could come up with a number of quick options depending on what level of low-light you're shooting in (ie: open the shutter, stretch the black by 2 or 3, add gain, add cam light, etc). I do expect I will have to run a mobile on-cam light higher than what I have typically, but I think I'll be able to come up with a good solution now, with options based on how far I am from the subject, and with the circumstances at hand.

Anyway - that's what I have in mind, and I look forward to more testing this weekend. Thanks again to many for excellent advice and tips.

Now - unfortunately, I can confirm that my particular unit does have the 'split screen' anomaly that had been mentioned here and there. I tested things tonight on a Sony PVM-8045, and I could see it pop up. The right hand side (split dead in the middle) gets a more magenta haze to it. Sometimes you have to look for it, and sometimes it's more visible. If I put the cam in very low light and switch the gain between 0, 6 & 9db and stretch and unstretch the blacks (via the preset switch), you can actually see the anomaly pop in and out and flicker. I think this was why I didn't see it at first, because it doesn't always seem to be there - it flickers in and out, stays, leaves, etc. Additionally, I should mention that I have never seen this split/flicker pop up under good or significant illumination.

It's nice to have found this forum, by which the anomaly was mentioned, as well as mention of JVC's resolution. I have had great luck with JVC ((3)DV500's & (8) DV550's), and I have found their service and support to be very good. Likewise, Ken Freed from JVC has always been an incredible wealth of knowledge, and very responsive to questions from every angle over many years.

I'm sure I'll need to return this particular unit, however, I'm positive I'll be keeping this little guy long-term (and I have another one on the way). Additionally, everyone I've shown this thing to loves it. Every 'can you do this' question they have seems to have quick 'yes' as an answer - it's just a cool cam. I'm also looking forward to their bigger guy that's supposed to come out next year, with great anticipation.

I'm sure it will all be taken care of. Hat's off so far - I'm looking forward to more experience with a nice little tool. Likewise, thanks for such a great forum. I learn from you all every day.

Best regards,

Shawn Alyasiri
www.renaissancevideo.com

Robert Castiglione · September 13th, 2005, 04:17 AM

Dear Shawn,

I have had an identical experience to yours with the camera. Love it generally. At first, so impressed when I shot stuff outsdoors. But then the dreaded split screen effect struck when I shot in doors. Particularly evident in low light shooting conditions.

It is just such a shame about the split screen business! I hope you are right that it will be sorted out.

Rob

Michael Maier · September 13th, 2005, 07:04 AM

Are any of you seeing the split screen at 0 & 3db as well or just higher gains?

Shawn Alyasiri · September 13th, 2005, 07:33 AM

Depending on the light (or lack of), I believe I noticed it at 0, 3, 6 & 9db, and when I was switching between the settings, turning the stretch on/off, etc. I would not normally run a cam past 6, but I'm guessing in a pinch, 9db may be necessary. I'm not conerned about anything showing up past 12db, etc - as that would be some gritty footage on any cam, however, the 3/6 range would be tougher. It's a subtle effect, but you can see it flicker in and out sometimes.

One potential application for me is sending this with people to weddings/receptions - so I would want to know what it's going to do in low-light and what else I'd have to send with it to make sure it was going to provide good images in those venues.

If you have control over the shoot/lighting then it's all the better. I have seen this thing take really cool images, and when you slap the mini35 on it only gets more creative.

By the way - it has worked very well hooked into DV Rack with the HDV power pack. Looking forward to the HDV upgrade for the FS-4.

It's a new and a very feature oriented camera in a small package with what I think is an incredible price for what it is. I'm sure we'll all find the sweet spots soon enough.

Robert Castiglione · September 13th, 2005, 07:42 AM

Yes, unfortunately, my experience is that the split screen effect is visible at 0 db not just when gain is on - it is just less visible but only in low light conditions.

This is why I am sending the camera back for repair/replacement.

Rob

Craig Terott · September 13th, 2005, 08:19 AM

Although I hope this isn't the case but... JVC's opinion of "fixed" and your opinion of "fixed" may be different. Please keep us posted when you receive replacement/repaired cams. Thanks-

Michael Maier · September 13th, 2005, 09:35 AM

Thanks guys. Do you have a PAL or NTSC?

Shawn Alyasiri · September 13th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Mine is NTSC.

Robert Castiglione · September 13th, 2005, 12:37 PM

mine is pal,

Rob

Alex Weltlinger · September 13th, 2005, 10:03 PM

Hi Rob! Good to see more aussies on these forums!

I'm curious - you stated in another post that you got your cam from New Zealand. Was this from the Global Media Pro website?

Robert Castiglione · September 13th, 2005, 11:53 PM

Yes it was.

Unfortunately - not born and bred Aussie (and my name is not Bruce) as my parents were Sicilian.

I wonder whether you could contact me on rcastiglione@mac.com to discuss your experience of globalmediapro.

Rob

September 12th, 2005, 07:03 PM	#1
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	HD-100 - Low Light Sensitivity - FOLLOW UP Hi everyone. Thanks very much for all of your initial replies and posts in the first thread. It's getting a little long, so I thought I'd post a follow-up. As what was expected with the HD chips, the camera will definitely have lower light sensitivity. I will need to test in some more 'real world' venues, however I did some final tests for now in my home tonight, pulling the light up and down (sorry, I don't have a light meter here). The design of this camera is excellent in my opinion, and the menus are very nice. I basically set it up with an increased gamma & color gain, and set 2 of the 3 preset buttons to be 'Black Stretch 2' & 'Black Stretch 3'. I set the 3-way gain switch to be programmed at 0, 6 & 9db (you can set it in 3db increments - thanks JVC). Likewise, you can punch the shutter button and get 1/30th shutter, which you would want to monitor closely if using (rather than 1/60), but it does allow significantly more light in. So - with these settings and 'quick buttons' to access, you could come up with a number of quick options depending on what level of low-light you're shooting in (ie: open the shutter, stretch the black by 2 or 3, add gain, add cam light, etc). I do expect I will have to run a mobile on-cam light higher than what I have typically, but I think I'll be able to come up with a good solution now, with options based on how far I am from the subject, and with the circumstances at hand. Anyway - that's what I have in mind, and I look forward to more testing this weekend. Thanks again to many for excellent advice and tips. Now - unfortunately, I can confirm that my particular unit does have the 'split screen' anomaly that had been mentioned here and there. I tested things tonight on a Sony PVM-8045, and I could see it pop up. The right hand side (split dead in the middle) gets a more magenta haze to it. Sometimes you have to look for it, and sometimes it's more visible. If I put the cam in very low light and switch the gain between 0, 6 & 9db and stretch and unstretch the blacks (via the preset switch), you can actually see the anomaly pop in and out and flicker. I think this was why I didn't see it at first, because it doesn't always seem to be there - it flickers in and out, stays, leaves, etc. Additionally, I should mention that I have never seen this split/flicker pop up under good or significant illumination. It's nice to have found this forum, by which the anomaly was mentioned, as well as mention of JVC's resolution. I have had great luck with JVC ((3)DV500's & (8) DV550's), and I have found their service and support to be very good. Likewise, Ken Freed from JVC has always been an incredible wealth of knowledge, and very responsive to questions from every angle over many years. I'm sure I'll need to return this particular unit, however, I'm positive I'll be keeping this little guy long-term (and I have another one on the way). Additionally, everyone I've shown this thing to loves it. Every 'can you do this' question they have seems to have quick 'yes' as an answer - it's just a cool cam. I'm also looking forward to their bigger guy that's supposed to come out next year, with great anticipation. I'm sure it will all be taken care of. Hat's off so far - I'm looking forward to more experience with a nice little tool. Likewise, thanks for such a great forum. I learn from you all every day. Best regards, Shawn Alyasiri www.renaissancevideo.com

September 13th, 2005, 04:17 AM	#2
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Dear Shawn, I have had an identical experience to yours with the camera. Love it generally. At first, so impressed when I shot stuff outsdoors. But then the dreaded split screen effect struck when I shot in doors. Particularly evident in low light shooting conditions. It is just such a shame about the split screen business! I hope you are right that it will be sorted out. Rob

September 13th, 2005, 07:04 AM	#3
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Are any of you seeing the split screen at 0 & 3db as well or just higher gains?

September 13th, 2005, 07:33 AM	#4
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Depending on the light (or lack of), I believe I noticed it at 0, 3, 6 & 9db, and when I was switching between the settings, turning the stretch on/off, etc. I would not normally run a cam past 6, but I'm guessing in a pinch, 9db may be necessary. I'm not conerned about anything showing up past 12db, etc - as that would be some gritty footage on any cam, however, the 3/6 range would be tougher. It's a subtle effect, but you can see it flicker in and out sometimes. One potential application for me is sending this with people to weddings/receptions - so I would want to know what it's going to do in low-light and what else I'd have to send with it to make sure it was going to provide good images in those venues. If you have control over the shoot/lighting then it's all the better. I have seen this thing take really cool images, and when you slap the mini35 on it only gets more creative. By the way - it has worked very well hooked into DV Rack with the HDV power pack. Looking forward to the HDV upgrade for the FS-4. It's a new and a very feature oriented camera in a small package with what I think is an incredible price for what it is. I'm sure we'll all find the sweet spots soon enough.

September 13th, 2005, 07:42 AM	#5
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Yes, unfortunately, my experience is that the split screen effect is visible at 0 db not just when gain is on - it is just less visible but only in low light conditions. This is why I am sending the camera back for repair/replacement. Rob

September 13th, 2005, 08:19 AM	#6
Craig Terott Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 691	Although I hope this isn't the case but... JVC's opinion of "fixed" and your opinion of "fixed" may be different. Please keep us posted when you receive replacement/repaired cams. Thanks-

September 13th, 2005, 09:35 AM	#7
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Thanks guys. Do you have a PAL or NTSC?

September 13th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#8
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	Mine is NTSC.

September 13th, 2005, 12:37 PM	#9
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	mine is pal, Rob

September 13th, 2005, 10:03 PM	#10
Alex Weltlinger New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 8	Hi Rob! Good to see more aussies on these forums! I'm curious - you stated in another post that you got your cam from New Zealand. Was this from the Global Media Pro website?

September 13th, 2005, 11:53 PM	#11
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Yes it was. Unfortunately - not born and bred Aussie (and my name is not Bruce) as my parents were Sicilian. I wonder whether you could contact me on rcastiglione@mac.com to discuss your experience of globalmediapro. Rob