HD-delivery discussion

[Tommy James]

Don't forget HD-VHS. This format could end up being the poor mans Blu-Ray. 50 high definition movies have already been released in this format. If you get one with the built in ATSC high definition tuner this box will never be obsolete as it will have the capability to recieve and record high definition broadcasts. Most Blu-Ray will only be able to play and not record. Again high definition players should be available for rental if you want to jumpstart public acceptance.

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Now that's funny :-)



@Douglas Spotted Eagle-Had you seen the laundry list of manufacturers that are backing each format? There are major studios on both sides of the issue.

....

Well aware of the list, well aware that you (or someone else) shorted the BD part of the list significantly, and well aware of many activities in that part of the industry that NDA prevents me from saying much about.
However....were industry support on the CONTENT side so great, why is Toshiba delaying the launch of HD-DVD so that they can "examine what opportunities are for HD-DVD and motion picture studios?"
Nero for example (Ahead Software) is on both lists. Why? Because their H.264 codec is great for both. Apple is on both lists as well, even though your list doesn't show either of them on the other format list.

I don't believe, and this is entirely opinion/conjecture, that consumers will be dumb enough to buy into HD-DVD as it sits. As Tim aptly mentions, a large percentage of the music and video catalogs are in Sony. Additionally, BD is the ultimate (thus far) available storage opp. I'll bet that we have compressions for 150GB by the end of this year or early next, with seek times of 70ms. HD-DVD can't begin to compete.
But the bottom line really is, IMO, content and accessibility. With Blu-Ray on PlayStation and set top, and with major motion pictures initially only being offered in Blu-Ray, and with a longer life, more "extras" etc all being part of BD, it's not too difficult to see what is coming down the pipe. Just wait for January of 2006...

[Tommy James]

Actually the future is not Blu-Ray but rather the Holographic Versatile Disc HVD. Even if the Blu-Ray has a storage capacity of of 150 Gigabytes the HVD can store up to 4000 gigabytes of information which is 25 times as much information as Blu-Ray can hold. Also HVD can stream at 1000 megabits per secound which is 50 times faster than the HDV requirement. For the future the choice is clear HVD will win out over Blu-Ray and already has major backing from the corporations.

[Graham Hickling]

I've been assuming the much-anticipated Blu-Ray drive in the XBox 360 would be the tipping point for it versus HD-DVD in the public mind.

But it now seems the early units will be shipping with merely DVD. Which I imagine will create some angst among prospective early adopters.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

Well aware of the list, well aware that you (or someone else) shorted the BD part of the list significantly, and well aware of many activities in that part of the industry that NDA prevents me from saying much about.
However....were industry support on the CONTENT side so great, why is Toshiba delaying the launch of HD-DVD so that they can "examine what opportunities are for HD-DVD and motion picture studios?"
Nero for example (Ahead Software) is on both lists. Why? Because their H.264 codec is great for both. Apple is on both lists as well, even though your list doesn't show either of them on the other format list.

I don't believe, and this is entirely opinion/conjecture, that consumers will be dumb enough to buy into HD-DVD as it sits. As Tim aptly mentions, a large percentage of the music and video catalogs are in Sony. Additionally, BD is the ultimate (thus far) available storage opp. I'll bet that we have compressions for 150GB by the end of this year or early next, with seek times of 70ms. HD-DVD can't begin to compete.
But the bottom line really is, IMO, content and accessibility. With Blu-Ray on PlayStation and set top, and with major motion pictures initially only being offered in Blu-Ray, and with a longer life, more "extras" etc all being part of BD, it's not too difficult to see what is coming down the pipe. Just wait for January of 2006...

Copy/Pasted that list and I know there are others out there that belong on each list. Consumers will buy whatever is marketed in a slick way. I'm sure you're well aware of market hype that pushes a product to success even though a better solution may already be available. To me it really doesn't matter personally. Professionally it does because a delivery format must be in place to utilize the HDV and DVCProHD and other codecs that are becoming readily available. On a side note, all the stuff produced here get's put to BetaSP or DVCPro50 as it is now. Not many broadcasters can even accept an m2t as it is now.

what are your thoughts?

[Douglas Spotted Eagle]

Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe

Copy/Pasted that list and I know there are others out there that belong on each list. Consumers will buy whatever is marketed in a slick way. I'm sure you're well aware of market hype that pushes a product to success even though a better solution may already be available. To me it really doesn't matter personally. Professionally it does because a delivery format must be in place to utilize the HDV and DVCProHD and other codecs that are becoming readily available. On a side note, all the stuff produced here get's put to BetaSP or DVCPro50 as it is now. Not many broadcasters can even accept an m2t as it is now.

what are your thoughts?

I doubt you'll ever see broadcasters accept m2t streams. Not sure where that question is coming from. HD is delivered on HDCAM, Mediadrive for an HD Media server, etc. If they did accept HDV, and I'm sure there will be some that eventually do, as several stations are shooting HDV now, then it'll be an HDV deck that outputs HD/SDI, and feeds a server unit or HDCAM deck, I'd imagine. About that same time, BD is available on the higher end, and so it's likely going to be another alternative there, too.
With XDCAM in place, and with XDCAM HD in less than a year, BD is likely going to be very, very common in the broadcast side of things. However, broadcast is the least of distribution worries. It's delivery to the consumer that really determines the failure or success of the format. What is superior doesn't matter. Just remember Beta v VHS [sorry, hit save changes while replying to another post]
Sony screwed up BIG on the Beta case, you can bet they larn't their lesson there. Or not. BD will suffice for both SD and HD in a broadcast, replication house, consumer's game system, DVD player, and camera, plus data storate, etc. Tommy brings up HVD, and it may well become a big thing, but not for a long, long while. BD took 7 years just to get announced, and when it WAS announced, they already had technology in place for manufacturing. I kinda thing HVD might be a little faster, but not much. It's also not a stable format for writing to in a deck, if I'm informed correctly. It's pretty finicky for the writing side. But it sure looks awesome.

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle

I doubt you'll ever see broadcasters accept m2t streams. Not sure where that question is coming from. HD is delivered on HDCAM, Mediadrive for an HD Media server, etc. If they did accept HDV, and I'm sure there will be some that eventually do, as several stations are shooting HDV now, then it'll be an HDV deck that outputs HD/SDI, and feeds a server unit or HDCAM deck, I'd imagine. About that same time, BD is available on the higher end, and so it's likely going to be another alternative there, too.
With XDCAM in place, and with XDCAM HD in less than a year, BD is likely going to be very, very common in the broadcast side of things. However, broadcast is the least of distribution worries. It's delivery to the consumer that really determines the failure or success of the format. What is superior doesn't matter. Just remember Beta v VHS [sorry, hit save changes while replying to another post]
Sony screwed up BIG on the Beta case, you can bet they larn't their lesson there. Or not. BD will suffice for both SD and HD in a broadcast, replication house, consumer's game system, DVD player, and camera, plus data storate, etc. Tommy brings up HVD, and it may well become a big thing, but not for a long, long while. BD took 7 years just to get announced, and when it WAS announced, they already had technology in place for manufacturing. I kinda thing HVD might be a little faster, but not much. It's also not a stable format for writing to in a deck, if I'm informed correctly. It's pretty finicky for the writing side. But it sure looks awesome.

Sorry OT and out of context: Our Liquid edit stations will injest/capture and utilize the HDV (and XDCam and P2/MXF, etc...) on the timeline across the board for Blue, ChromeHD and Liquid Edition Broadcast (v6.x).

Neither Blu-Ray or HD-DVD look good compaired to the holographic that was mentioned up the thread. I read about it a couple of years ago and though it was some magazines fantasy but I guess it's the real deal and it's being developed. These are confusing times (format wise) and it would be hard to make a decision based on any one thing because there are several factors at play.

we'll see....