DVX vs. HD100 Clips at DVinfo.net

Nate Weaver · September 6th, 2005, 08:02 PM

Since the last three years I've been an avid proponent of the DVX, and that one of my beliefs is that the HD100 fills all the jobs of the DVX and more, I decided the next logical step would be to compare the two.

On Sunday, myself and my friend Brian Hodge (DVX owner) decided we'd set up a shot or two and compare the two side-by-side. The tests would be:

1-DVX100A vs. HD100, both shooting DV 24PA

2-DVX vs. HD100, HD100 shooting HDV 24P then downconverted to SD res.

3-DVX resolution chart vs. HD100 res chart in DV 24PA

4-DVX res chart vs HD100 res chart (downconverted to SD from HDV)

I compiled the results into a DVD image that can be downloaded, burned, and then viewed on NTSC or your computer. While you can definitely see differences on a computer monitor, I feel these sorts of things are best judged on NTSC.

The link:

Mac: http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/nweaver/DVX-HD100.img
PC: http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/nweaver/HD100-DVX.iso

I'll wait until I get some responses to post what I feel the results were...you know, to keep up the suspense and all :-)

Scott Webster · September 6th, 2005, 08:34 PM

Hi Nate

How did you do the down conversion from HDV 24p to SD?
Through NLE means or component out of the camera into a DVCAM/DV VTR?

Sorry, no Mac to appreciate your efforts.

Stephen L. Noe · September 6th, 2005, 09:17 PM

Nate, thanks for the effort. Unfortunately an img file will not work with Windows. We'll need an iso file to be able to burn it.

Michael Maier · September 6th, 2005, 09:25 PM

Yeah, I would like to watch it too, but I'm also wintel based.
May I ask you an off topic question on the HD100?
Is the tripod plate really a standard sony and does the camera come with the tripod shoe or the shoe comes with the plate when you buy it? I have a sony plate laying around, but I don't have a shoe.

Thanks Nate.

Nate Weaver · September 6th, 2005, 09:39 PM

Link to ISO added above.

Scott Webster · September 6th, 2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Yeah, I would like to watch it too, but I'm also wintel based.
May I ask you an off topic question on the HD100?
Is the tripod plate really a standard sony and does the camera come with the tripod shoe or the shoe comes with the plate when you buy it? I have a sony plate laying around, but I don't have a shoe.

Thanks Nate.

The JVC plate is the same as a Sony. Just mounted a 709 on it no problem.
But the camera does not come standard with the tripod shoe. The tripod shoe comes with the tripod plate.

You'll need to see if JVC offer the tripod shoe as a part.

You can't use a Sony tripod shoe either, the holes don't line up (but not by much). Which I guess means Chrosziel will have to release a new light weight support(rail mount).

Nate Weaver · September 6th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Link to ISO added above.

Kevin Shaw · September 7th, 2005, 01:01 AM

Nate: since you apparently have access to both cameras, how about comparing a resolution chart shot on the HD100 at full HDV quality to the same chart shot on the DVX100? We've seen plenty of comparisons between HDV and DV cameras where the HDV footage is downsampled to SD resolution; time to take the gloves off and let HDV show its full value!

Stephen L. Noe · September 7th, 2005, 01:40 AM

Hi,

@Kevin, you know the rez for HDV is better and will mop the floor with the DVX100a. The problem is, there is no delivery method for HDV unless you're going straight to HDTV broadcast or to the web (DivX, WMV or QT-H264). You can't burn an HD DVD on any device so the HDV must be downsampled to SD in order to deliver a DVD. If Toshiba ever get's their act together then maybe we'll be able to deliver HD-DVD, until then it's downsample and archive or transfer to film hombre...

@Nate, The ISO burned and played. Thanks for doing that. They looked comparable to me. I didn't check the waveform or do a histomatch but to my eye they looked pretty close. Do you know of any clips on line that were shot in 30P?

Paul Mogg · September 7th, 2005, 02:57 AM

Thanks for posting that comparison Nate. What I'm seeing is a lot more resolution from the HD100 than on the DVX, even in SD mode, which suprised me. The place to see this is on the stones between the railroad tracks, and the resolution charts attest to this, hard to argue with that. However on the color front, I find the DVX picture much more pleasing all round I have to say.
I'd want to do a lot of color correction on the JVC pics for my taste, but just a bit of saturation on the DVX. I wonder how well the HDV from the HD100 holds up to any color correction? I'd probably want to transcode to DVCPRO HD or better uncompressed to attempt that.

Thanks again

Paul

Nate Weaver · September 7th, 2005, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mogg

Thanks for posting that comparison Nate. What I'm seeing is a lot more resolution from the HD100 than on the DVX, even in SD mode, which suprised me. The place to see this is on the stones between the railroad tracks, and the resolution charts attest to this, hard to argue with that. However on the color front, I find the DVX picture much more pleasing all round I have to say.
I'd want to do a lot of color correction on the JVC pics for my taste, but just a bit of saturation on the DVX. I wonder how well the HDV from the HD100 holds up to any color correction? I'd probably want to transcode to DVCPRO HD or better uncompressed to attempt that.

Thanks again

Paul

I agree with the assertion that the HD100 footage looks sharper, but the res charts I think I messed up. The downconverted HD100 chart is sharper on the vertical resolution, but worse on the horizontal. I pulled the full frame stills using Quicktime Player, and then made the enlargements using Photoshop...using the scale tool inside a 720x480 document. I think maybe the scale tool was not the way to do this.

Also, somebody asked how I did the footage downconversion...all footage was pulled into a DVCPRO 50 timeline and then the MPEG-2s were encoded directly off of that. The idea was to preserve to chroma resolution gain you get when downconverting HDV.

FCP 4.5 did a lousy job of scaling down footage, but 5 seems to do a great job.

Markus Bo · September 7th, 2005, 04:02 PM

Hi Nate,

thanks for the great comparison. I am following the discussion about the HD 100 for some months now but finally I got a few visual arguments to decide. The downconverted material looks pretty good and I think I will sell my GY 5000 soon. Maybe the experts still have good arguments against it but my pics just have to look good on TV and with a little adjustments the cam permits the results must be (nearly) perfect.

Markus

Guy Barwood · September 7th, 2005, 05:21 PM

If I could sell my DV500 for a half reasonable price I would. I love it, but would like to move to a HD100 for the obvious HD option but also native 16:9 DV. I would still have my DV301 for low light 4:3 SD (about the same as the DV500).

Tommy James · September 7th, 2005, 09:25 PM

What I would like to see is a comparison between footage from the DVX that has been upconverted to 720p and native 720p footage from the HD100.

Nate Weaver · September 7th, 2005, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy James

What I would like to see is a comparison between footage from the DVX that has been upconverted to 720p and native 720p footage from the HD100.

Why? You want to see just how much softer the DVX footage would be? I'm sure the DVX uprezes pretty nicely for a DV camera, but trust me, there's a lot more real resolution the HD100 puts out.

September 6th, 2005, 08:02 PM	#1
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	DVX vs. HD100 Clips Since the last three years I've been an avid proponent of the DVX, and that one of my beliefs is that the HD100 fills all the jobs of the DVX and more, I decided the next logical step would be to compare the two. On Sunday, myself and my friend Brian Hodge (DVX owner) decided we'd set up a shot or two and compare the two side-by-side. The tests would be: 1-DVX100A vs. HD100, both shooting DV 24PA 2-DVX vs. HD100, HD100 shooting HDV 24P then downconverted to SD res. 3-DVX resolution chart vs. HD100 res chart in DV 24PA 4-DVX res chart vs HD100 res chart (downconverted to SD from HDV) I compiled the results into a DVD image that can be downloaded, burned, and then viewed on NTSC or your computer. While you can definitely see differences on a computer monitor, I feel these sorts of things are best judged on NTSC. The link: Mac: http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/nweaver/DVX-HD100.img PC: http://www.hdvinfo.net/media/nweaver/HD100-DVX.iso I'll wait until I get some responses to post what I feel the results were...you know, to keep up the suspense and all :-) Last edited by Nate Weaver; September 7th, 2005 at 11:38 AM.

September 6th, 2005, 09:39 PM	#5
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Link to ISO added above. Last edited by Nate Weaver; September 6th, 2005 at 10:27 PM.

September 7th, 2005, 02:57 AM	#10
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Thanks for posting that comparison Nate. What I'm seeing is a lot more resolution from the HD100 than on the DVX, even in SD mode, which suprised me. The place to see this is on the stones between the railroad tracks, and the resolution charts attest to this, hard to argue with that. However on the color front, I find the DVX picture much more pleasing all round I have to say. I'd want to do a lot of color correction on the JVC pics for my taste, but just a bit of saturation on the DVX. I wonder how well the HDV from the HD100 holds up to any color correction? I'd probably want to transcode to DVCPRO HD or better uncompressed to attempt that. Thanks again Paul __________________ Paul

September 6th, 2005, 08:34 PM	#2
Scott Webster Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Zealand Posts: 136	Hi Nate How did you do the down conversion from HDV 24p to SD? Through NLE means or component out of the camera into a DVCAM/DV VTR? Sorry, no Mac to appreciate your efforts.

September 6th, 2005, 09:17 PM	#3
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Nate, thanks for the effort. Unfortunately an img file will not work with Windows. We'll need an iso file to be able to burn it.

September 6th, 2005, 09:25 PM	#4
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Yeah, I would like to watch it too, but I'm also wintel based. May I ask you an off topic question on the HD100? Is the tripod plate really a standard sony and does the camera come with the tripod shoe or the shoe comes with the plate when you buy it? I have a sony plate laying around, but I don't have a shoe. Thanks Nate.

September 6th, 2005, 10:27 PM	#7
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Link to ISO added above.

September 7th, 2005, 01:01 AM	#8
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Nate: since you apparently have access to both cameras, how about comparing a resolution chart shot on the HD100 at full HDV quality to the same chart shot on the DVX100? We've seen plenty of comparisons between HDV and DV cameras where the HDV footage is downsampled to SD resolution; time to take the gloves off and let HDV show its full value!

September 7th, 2005, 01:40 AM	#9
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Hi, @Kevin, you know the rez for HDV is better and will mop the floor with the DVX100a. The problem is, there is no delivery method for HDV unless you're going straight to HDTV broadcast or to the web (DivX, WMV or QT-H264). You can't burn an HD DVD on any device so the HDV must be downsampled to SD in order to deliver a DVD. If Toshiba ever get's their act together then maybe we'll be able to deliver HD-DVD, until then it's downsample and archive or transfer to film hombre... @Nate, The ISO burned and played. Thanks for doing that. They looked comparable to me. I didn't check the waveform or do a histomatch but to my eye they looked pretty close. Do you know of any clips on line that were shot in 30P?

September 7th, 2005, 04:02 PM	#12
Markus Bo Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ingelheim (Rheinland-Pfalz) Posts: 140	Hi Nate, thanks for the great comparison. I am following the discussion about the HD 100 for some months now but finally I got a few visual arguments to decide. The downconverted material looks pretty good and I think I will sell my GY 5000 soon. Maybe the experts still have good arguments against it but my pics just have to look good on TV and with a little adjustments the cam permits the results must be (nearly) perfect. Markus

September 7th, 2005, 05:21 PM	#13
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	If I could sell my DV500 for a half reasonable price I would. I love it, but would like to move to a HD100 for the obvious HD option but also native 16:9 DV. I would still have my DV301 for low light 4:3 SD (about the same as the DV500).

September 7th, 2005, 09:25 PM	#14
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	What I would like to see is a comparison between footage from the DVX that has been upconverted to 720p and native 720p footage from the HD100.