GY-HD100U review: JVC's answer to color smearing at DVinfo.net

Alexei Berteig · August 31st, 2005, 09:32 AM

After reading about the problems with green and magenta smears around bright subjects, I went into the JVC lab to see if the problem could be reduced by changing the aperture of the lens, and various other things.

This is a focus problem, period. As you reduce the f-stop, the depth of field increases and there is less green and magenta blur around highlights. When you rack focus you can see green and magenta blooming around every highlight going out of focus. Once you've spotted the color shift, you start to notice that ANY neutral tone separates into G, M and white in the background.

My theory: the glass elements in the lens are just too damn small, and there is a prism effect as the light passes through the glass.

I talked to the head of JVC in China, and he says JVC is aware of the problem, and have known about it from the beginning. He said they use this lens to keep the cost down.

Anyone buying this camera would be wise to buy the body only, if possible, and use a conversion system to mount different lenses.

As well, the microphone is good for playing fetch with your puppy.

There is no remote control unit for the camera, making editing and capturing a bit of a pain in the post-production ergonomics department.

The camera is small, and the short distance between rear of the camera and the lens grip means if you're tall, you're going to feel like your wrist is up against your shoulder. The eyepiece adjusts nicely, giving you some latitude. But MAN, once you get a 1/2-inch lens on there, that sucker is going to really be front-left heavy. Better have a strong wrist to keep your frame level.

I've heard the battery is not so good, so you're going to have to buy: a. The camera, b. a microphone, c. a lens and adapter, d. a couple of third-party battery packs and mount. Guess what? We're suddenly up in the 10K range again.

And there is no FCP solution yet. I told the head of JVC here that anyone considering this camera is probably going to be using other low-cost highly-professional equipment, and they're pitching their camera straight into the ocean if they can't get cooperation from Apple on this.

The upside:

Those caveats aside, the camera shoots in 7, count them, 7 different formats, making it a cross-Atlantic shooter for those of you considering multiple formats for distribution. Count on shelling out for post-production.

Bottom line...I still lust for one...that metal body, those pro switches, that Progressive scan HD look...drool.

Chris Hurd · August 31st, 2005, 09:45 AM

Welcome to (H)DV Info Net, Alexei.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Berteig

There is no remote control unit for the camera, making editing and capturing a bit of a pain in the post-production ergonomics department.

I don't understand -- of course there is remote control. The HD100 is very well supported by remote control. In post production during editing and capturing, the HD100 is remotely controlled via FireWire (IEEE 1394), just like every other modern DV or HDV camera. Capturing and editing during post is no different with the HD100 than it is with any other camcorder. FireWire carries remote machine control and your editing application can remotely access it and control it just the same as all other camcorders on the market.

Quote:

really be front-left heavy. Better have a strong wrist to keep your frame level

A pro battery soplution, such as an IDX, Aspen or Anton/Bauer system is pretty much a necessity with this camera, and the added weight of a pro battery pack on the rear of the HD100 will more than adequately compensate for the heavy front end. Properly configured in this manner, it will in fact be a well-balanced camcorder.

Alexei Berteig · August 31st, 2005, 10:56 AM

To clarify: The problem with device control in FCP is that there is a 2x forward or backward, but no hi-speed search. If you hit the rewind or fast-forward controls in the FCP capture window, you can't see the footage you're passing by. So....if you want to zip through footage you've got to do it with camera controls. I kind of like the remote on the Canon XL series - you can park the camera somewhere convenient and with the wonderful remote just zip around like nobody's business. It's just a detail.

Alexei Berteig · August 31st, 2005, 10:57 AM

Not that you can actually USE FCP at this point...:-\

Michael Maier · August 31st, 2005, 12:50 PM

Alexei, a Varicam or Cinealta has no remote control either. But I'm not upset at all, because no professional camera does. Because professional camera are not even expected to be used as decks, so remote control is really the least of the problems IMHO.

Craig Donaldson · August 31st, 2005, 02:09 PM

Excuse my ignorance here.....but what exactly is the prob with using a 101-e with fcp 5? So far i have logged and captured and started cutting a load of stuff from my new camera, all shot in hdv 30p. No issues yet. So whats the deal? Iv'e got a job coming up where the footage will have to be cut on a mac, is my camera gonna cause me dramas?

Tim Brown · August 31st, 2005, 02:11 PM

If I'm not mistaken, FCP offers no support for 24p.

Tom Wills · August 31st, 2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Brown

If I'm not mistaken, FCP offers no support for 24p.

Sorry, but FCP has supported 24p for a good long time now.

Stephen van Vuuren · August 31st, 2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wills

Sorry, but FCP has supported 24p for a good long time now.

FCP does not support 24p HDV at 720p from this camera at this time because as Douglas pointed out it is not in the HDV standard. Other 24p works just fine is FCP.

Greg Boston · August 31st, 2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Berteig

To clarify: The problem with device control in FCP is that there is a 2x forward or backward, but no hi-speed search. If you hit the rewind or fast-forward controls in the FCP capture window, you can't see the footage you're passing by. So....if you want to zip through footage you've got to do it with camera controls. I kind of like the remote on the Canon XL series - you can park the camera somewhere convenient and with the wonderful remote just zip around like nobody's business. It's just a detail.

Of course you can high speed search. Use the JKL keys. Repeatedly pressing the the J or L keys will speed up the backward/forward speed. You can also use the left/right arrows for one frame at a time, or use shift arrow to bump that to 10 frames at a time. Let's see, playing 10 frames at a time would kind of mean a 10x speed.

However, you are correct about no support for the JVC format in FCP yet.

-gb-

Alexei Berteig · September 2nd, 2005, 02:28 AM

So let me get this straight: FCP 5 can use 720 30P footage from the HD 101? Can it also use 720 25P? If FCP supports 720 25P from this camera, my worries are over.

Thanks for the tip about hitting the J and L keys twice to speed up the scrubbing. I can't believe I didn't know that.

Greg Boston · September 2nd, 2005, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Berteig

So let me get this straight: FCP 5 can use 720 30P footage from the HD 101? Can it also use 720 25P? If FCP supports 720 25P from this camera, my worries are over.

Thanks for the tip about hitting the J and L keys twice to speed up the scrubbing. I can't believe I didn't know that.

You can press more than twice and it will be even faster. ;-)

-gb-

Steve Mullen · September 3rd, 2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexei Berteig

So let me get this straight: FCP 5 can use 720 30P footage from the HD 101? Can it also use 720 25P? If FCP supports 720 25P from this camera, my worries are over.

No one answered you. The is no 720p25 PRESET. But you can make a 25p Sequene setting. But the only capture setting is "HDV." Perhaps it will work with any fps HDV.

Apple really didn't put much work into it'd HDV support.

Nate Weaver · September 3rd, 2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

No one answered you. The is no 720p25 PRESET. But you can make a 25p Sequene setting. But the only capture setting is "HDV." Perhaps it will work with any fps HDV.

You can't manipulate the FPS independently of the HDV codec when an HDV codec is selected in a sequence setting, unlike most other codecs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it...having to do with how HDV is handled internally in FCP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

Apple really didn't put much work into it'd HDV support.

I'd disagree very much. They implemented it natively and system wide, meaning any application using Quicktime can read and write HDV, including Motion and DVD Studio Pro.

James Tocher · September 5th, 2005, 01:45 AM

Hi All,

James Tocher here from Digital Film Group in Vancouver Canada. Love this thread and kudos to Chris for the great info site and the smart ongoing commentary!

Just wanted to let you all know that I have had a couple of HD100's for the past couple of months - one before and one after the de-coder updates - and I have recently shot a short with it that we are going to blow up to film soon through my company, DFG. Have seen some of the footage up to film already and the results are looking great.

I was also involved in some of the early design work done months ago and it has been a pleasure seeing it come together. I was a little worried after the first pre-release I had in my hands until I spoke to JVC about the lens and decoder updates, but now I am blown away by what we are getting on film from this baby.

I hope to have my article up on our website through our online Zine - CIRCUIT and some pics. I hope it's cool to share the link here : www.digitalfilmgroup.com. We will also be posting and some settings for what we are finding is working well for detail, gamma etc. under the "Tips & Tricks" section. So far it's looking like it's wise to keep the V-FREQUENCY on LOW, as the HIGH setting is very noisy, and everything else Detail related on NORMAL. The noise doesn't necessarily show up on monitors, but for film out or projection it can get ugly.

The 720p definetely needs a bit of a boost from the detail enhancement though - but more on that later.

I have also had some experience with the Sony Z1, as I shot a little short and blew it up to film for Sony recently called "Big Hurray Saturday". It is touring around at some of the Sony road events right now on 35mm if anyone is interested.

Hopefully I will have the JVC short film "Hitch Hiker" done in the next 2 to 3 weeks as well - so I will keep in touch!

Keep up the good dialogue !

James Tocher

August 31st, 2005, 09:32 AM	#1
Alexei Berteig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Beijing, China Posts: 38	GY-HD100U review: JVC's answer to color smearing After reading about the problems with green and magenta smears around bright subjects, I went into the JVC lab to see if the problem could be reduced by changing the aperture of the lens, and various other things. This is a focus problem, period. As you reduce the f-stop, the depth of field increases and there is less green and magenta blur around highlights. When you rack focus you can see green and magenta blooming around every highlight going out of focus. Once you've spotted the color shift, you start to notice that ANY neutral tone separates into G, M and white in the background. My theory: the glass elements in the lens are just too damn small, and there is a prism effect as the light passes through the glass. I talked to the head of JVC in China, and he says JVC is aware of the problem, and have known about it from the beginning. He said they use this lens to keep the cost down. Anyone buying this camera would be wise to buy the body only, if possible, and use a conversion system to mount different lenses. As well, the microphone is good for playing fetch with your puppy. There is no remote control unit for the camera, making editing and capturing a bit of a pain in the post-production ergonomics department. The camera is small, and the short distance between rear of the camera and the lens grip means if you're tall, you're going to feel like your wrist is up against your shoulder. The eyepiece adjusts nicely, giving you some latitude. But MAN, once you get a 1/2-inch lens on there, that sucker is going to really be front-left heavy. Better have a strong wrist to keep your frame level. I've heard the battery is not so good, so you're going to have to buy: a. The camera, b. a microphone, c. a lens and adapter, d. a couple of third-party battery packs and mount. Guess what? We're suddenly up in the 10K range again. And there is no FCP solution yet. I told the head of JVC here that anyone considering this camera is probably going to be using other low-cost highly-professional equipment, and they're pitching their camera straight into the ocean if they can't get cooperation from Apple on this. The upside: Those caveats aside, the camera shoots in 7, count them, 7 different formats, making it a cross-Atlantic shooter for those of you considering multiple formats for distribution. Count on shelling out for post-production. Bottom line...I still lust for one...that metal body, those pro switches, that Progressive scan HD look...drool.

August 31st, 2005, 10:56 AM	#3
Alexei Berteig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Beijing, China Posts: 38	Remote To clarify: The problem with device control in FCP is that there is a 2x forward or backward, but no hi-speed search. If you hit the rewind or fast-forward controls in the FCP capture window, you can't see the footage you're passing by. So....if you want to zip through footage you've got to do it with camera controls. I kind of like the remote on the Canon XL series - you can park the camera somewhere convenient and with the wonderful remote just zip around like nobody's business. It's just a detail.

August 31st, 2005, 10:57 AM	#4
Alexei Berteig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Beijing, China Posts: 38	Er...wait a minute. Not that you can actually USE FCP at this point...:-\

September 2nd, 2005, 02:28 AM	#11
Alexei Berteig Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Beijing, China Posts: 38	Can FCP5 capture 720 25P from the GY-HD101? So let me get this straight: FCP 5 can use 720 30P footage from the HD 101? Can it also use 720 25P? If FCP supports 720 25P from this camera, my worries are over. Thanks for the tip about hitting the J and L keys twice to speed up the scrubbing. I can't believe I didn't know that.

September 5th, 2005, 01:45 AM	#15
James Tocher Tourist Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1	Blowing up to film from the HD100U Hi All, James Tocher here from Digital Film Group in Vancouver Canada. Love this thread and kudos to Chris for the great info site and the smart ongoing commentary! Just wanted to let you all know that I have had a couple of HD100's for the past couple of months - one before and one after the de-coder updates - and I have recently shot a short with it that we are going to blow up to film soon through my company, DFG. Have seen some of the footage up to film already and the results are looking great. I was also involved in some of the early design work done months ago and it has been a pleasure seeing it come together. I was a little worried after the first pre-release I had in my hands until I spoke to JVC about the lens and decoder updates, but now I am blown away by what we are getting on film from this baby. I hope to have my article up on our website through our online Zine - CIRCUIT and some pics. I hope it's cool to share the link here : www.digitalfilmgroup.com. We will also be posting and some settings for what we are finding is working well for detail, gamma etc. under the "Tips & Tricks" section. So far it's looking like it's wise to keep the V-FREQUENCY on LOW, as the HIGH setting is very noisy, and everything else Detail related on NORMAL. The noise doesn't necessarily show up on monitors, but for film out or projection it can get ugly. The 720p definetely needs a bit of a boost from the detail enhancement though - but more on that later. I have also had some experience with the Sony Z1, as I shot a little short and blew it up to film for Sony recently called "Big Hurray Saturday". It is touring around at some of the Sony road events right now on 35mm if anyone is interested. Hopefully I will have the JVC short film "Hitch Hiker" done in the next 2 to 3 weeks as well - so I will keep in touch! Keep up the good dialogue ! James Tocher

August 31st, 2005, 12:50 PM	#5
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Alexei, a Varicam or Cinealta has no remote control either. But I'm not upset at all, because no professional camera does. Because professional camera are not even expected to be used as decks, so remote control is really the least of the problems IMHO.

August 31st, 2005, 02:09 PM	#6
Craig Donaldson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 80	Excuse my ignorance here.....but what exactly is the prob with using a 101-e with fcp 5? So far i have logged and captured and started cutting a load of stuff from my new camera, all shot in hdv 30p. No issues yet. So whats the deal? Iv'e got a job coming up where the footage will have to be cut on a mac, is my camera gonna cause me dramas?

August 31st, 2005, 02:11 PM	#7
Tim Brown Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Richmond, Virginia Posts: 263	If I'm not mistaken, FCP offers no support for 24p.