Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 at DVinfo.net

Ian Skurrie · August 15th, 2011, 07:59 PM

Hi, I thought that I would briefly report that we successfully tested a NInja HDMI recorder with a GYHD 101 camera. We took the feed out of the component outputs into a relatively cheap component to HDMI converter and into the Ninja and recorded 720P 50 frames per sec prores HQ without any problem at all. I did try to record a SD signal out of it but was unsuccessful.
Given that the crappy JVC HD tape recording system on the camera has failed and JVC refuse to acknowledge that this is a design/ manufacturing problem, I can record in 720P without spending nearly $3000 dollars on a new recording mechanism to replace the replacement recording mechanism which failed.

regards

Ian Skurrie

Ervin Farkas · August 18th, 2011, 07:47 PM

Is there any quality improvement over recording to tape?

Thanks,

Terry Hirsch · August 19th, 2011, 01:07 PM

Would you list the brand and price of component-to-HDMI-converter you used, and if it works with US standards? I'd like to use one and bypass the tape route, as well. Thanks.

Mat Thompson · August 20th, 2011, 03:31 AM

Very interested on folks views as to quality on this method, this is a 4:2:2 uncompressed source right ? Ian how is the footage ?

Ian Skurrie · August 24th, 2011, 12:16 AM

Hi,
I borrowed the ninja rig so I am in the process of getting the information for you all. The picture quality was quite good and seems to be better than what I would have expected from tape. However since I can't record HD to tape anymore complements of a mechanism which failed after a few short months I can't do a side by side analysis.
That said, I would say that there is less noise, better detail in darker areas of the picture and I think probably better dynamic range than I would expect from tape. My apologies for not being more specific.

regards

Ian Skurrie

Ian Skurrie · August 25th, 2011, 09:45 PM

Here are the details.
The component to HDMI converter link is

component RGB to HDMI converter v1.3 compatible HDCP | eBay
Please note that the converter is really a component YUV to HDMI converter despite what the link says.
The 5 volt power supply was made with a battery pack and was just a 4 x AA battery holder from Jaycar meant to be an emergency phone charger. He ( my mate) made the power cable by cutting up the converter's power cable and a USB cable.

regards
Ian Skurrie

Enrique Vega · September 22nd, 2011, 07:24 AM

Were you able to use it as a monitor to focus with? I'm also wondering if the JVC HZ-CA13U lens adapter is used, could the ninja be turned upside down to correct the flip?

Looks like we may still be able to get really good quality from these older 1/3" chip cameras!

Finn Yarbrough · June 14th, 2012, 06:33 PM

I don't know... I tried this with my HD 200u and a samurai, suing Blackmagic's component to SDI converter. It made my rig pretty awkward, and for all that, the camera still only outputs 8-bit stuff. So you do get a 4:2:2 signal, but no more color depth than before. In my opinion, it's not worth the price unless all you need to shoot is a green screen. It doesn't seem to help with latitude for color grading. Am I missing something?

Jimiz Zanei · August 2nd, 2012, 03:34 PM

I think IF the converter not make a PERFECT work and convert in HDMI a really unconpressed video , qith 4.2.2 colors...you not see really difference from thesame video takeout of tape/firewire...

so IF you have broken your firewire/tape mechan. have sense to use a ninja...also id is little to much expansime for a old cam like the GY HD series...

But if you searching more quality , and hope to recording with ninja in a better HD with 4.2.2 color , of the tape/firewire is better look more confirmed and documets about...because thats cheap converters can not work good what you think...

so...who can show little clips differents (with tape/firewire , and with ninja captured) ?!?

Jimiz Zanei · August 3rd, 2012, 04:34 AM

more..
first remember , uncompressed and 4.2.2 video stream is only present on analog output in realtime use...
so if first you record something to tape, and later you see the result from tape, the otuput analog have thesame quality of the tape..so 4.2.0 and compressed.

For a real good test, you must recorder to the ninja with comp.>hdmi converter in live without tape ....
and later recorder the same clip with tape...
so you can make a real comparison with the 2 clip....
tape one...m2t , 720p 19mb 4.2.0 bit color

and the ninja 720p ? compression better ? bit color 4.2.2 or the converter not work good from analog input and convert to 4.2.0 ???
this is important...or ofcourse you not can have incremente of quality with atoms ninja...before what you just recod to tape.

can any one make a good test and look if there are visible benefits in both the bitrate in bit color ??
4.2.2 if really present made a BIG different from 4.2.0 , specialy for croma key working , color corrections, and dynamic...

Sareesh Sudhakaran · August 6th, 2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimiz Zanei

can any one make a good test and look if there are visible benefits in both the bitrate in bit color ??
4.2.2 if really present made a BIG different from 4.2.0 , specialy for croma key working , color corrections, and dynamic...

I don't have my camera anymore, but I had found no practical difference between the analog 4:2:2 and the internal 4:2:0 HDV recording of the JVC 111E. In my personal opinion, don't waste your time.

Paul R Johnson · August 7th, 2012, 01:02 AM

I fail to see how going to analogue and back can possibly improve picture quality. You might be able to record in 720 pro res but the D to A, then A back to D would seem to remove any of the advantages of the higher bit rates.

Jimiz Zanei · August 9th, 2012, 01:44 PM

Depend
If the converer (chip) not convert right the color bit 4.2.2 and compression without change...sure the quality can be better...BUT if the nija can really recorder a input really 4.2.2 from the jvc hd...must be better, meaby not soon with eyes look , but in editing with color corr. and croma key...IF is a really 4.2.2 you must see the different and can be little...if you see then thesame file but from tape or firewire.

Sure, if the converter analog component to hdmi..not work well ...you can have a better files from tape.

But we are sure the analog output of the jvc hd 1xx and 2xx , have a really 4.2.2 uncompressed video ? if yes...no one have try to made a acquisition from those input with a good pci cards HD of mac/pc ?? those videocards can recording HD analog component inputs , with 10 bit color...

in this situation you can have the true... and see if the analog output is really 4.2.2, uncompressed and more better of the tape/firewire output.

August 15th, 2011, 07:59 PM	#1
Ian Skurrie Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mooroolbark, Victoria, AU Posts: 63	Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Hi, I thought that I would briefly report that we successfully tested a NInja HDMI recorder with a GYHD 101 camera. We took the feed out of the component outputs into a relatively cheap component to HDMI converter and into the Ninja and recorded 720P 50 frames per sec prores HQ without any problem at all. I did try to record a SD signal out of it but was unsuccessful. Given that the crappy JVC HD tape recording system on the camera has failed and JVC refuse to acknowledge that this is a design/ manufacturing problem, I can record in 720P without spending nearly $3000 dollars on a new recording mechanism to replace the replacement recording mechanism which failed. regards Ian Skurrie

August 18th, 2011, 07:47 PM	#2
Ervin Farkas Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Atlanta/USA Posts: 2,515	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Is there any quality improvement over recording to tape? Thanks, __________________ Ervin Farkas www.AtlantaLegalVideo.com

August 19th, 2011, 01:07 PM	#3
Terry Hirsch New Boot Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 6	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Would you list the brand and price of component-to-HDMI-converter you used, and if it works with US standards? I'd like to use one and bypass the tape route, as well. Thanks.

August 20th, 2011, 03:31 AM	#4
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Very interested on folks views as to quality on this method, this is a 4:2:2 uncompressed source right ? Ian how is the footage ?

August 24th, 2011, 12:16 AM	#5
Ian Skurrie Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mooroolbark, Victoria, AU Posts: 63	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Hi, I borrowed the ninja rig so I am in the process of getting the information for you all. The picture quality was quite good and seems to be better than what I would have expected from tape. However since I can't record HD to tape anymore complements of a mechanism which failed after a few short months I can't do a side by side analysis. That said, I would say that there is less noise, better detail in darker areas of the picture and I think probably better dynamic range than I would expect from tape. My apologies for not being more specific. regards Ian Skurrie

August 25th, 2011, 09:45 PM	#6
Ian Skurrie Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mooroolbark, Victoria, AU Posts: 63	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Here are the details. The component to HDMI converter link is component RGB to HDMI converter v1.3 compatible HDCP \| eBay Please note that the converter is really a component YUV to HDMI converter despite what the link says. The 5 volt power supply was made with a battery pack and was just a 4 x AA battery holder from Jaycar meant to be an emergency phone charger. He ( my mate) made the power cable by cutting up the converter's power cable and a USB cable. regards Ian Skurrie Last edited by Ian Skurrie; August 26th, 2011 at 08:34 PM.

September 22nd, 2011, 07:24 AM	#7
Enrique Vega New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 11	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Were you able to use it as a monitor to focus with? I'm also wondering if the JVC HZ-CA13U lens adapter is used, could the ninja be turned upside down to correct the flip? Looks like we may still be able to get really good quality from these older 1/3" chip cameras!

June 14th, 2012, 06:33 PM	#8
Finn Yarbrough Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Ferrisburgh, VT Posts: 179	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 I don't know... I tried this with my HD 200u and a samurai, suing Blackmagic's component to SDI converter. It made my rig pretty awkward, and for all that, the camera still only outputs 8-bit stuff. So you do get a 4:2:2 signal, but no more color depth than before. In my opinion, it's not worth the price unless all you need to shoot is a green screen. It doesn't seem to help with latitude for color grading. Am I missing something?

August 2nd, 2012, 03:34 PM	#9
Jimiz Zanei New Boot Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Latisana Udine Italy Posts: 23	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 I think IF the converter not make a PERFECT work and convert in HDMI a really unconpressed video , qith 4.2.2 colors...you not see really difference from thesame video takeout of tape/firewire... so IF you have broken your firewire/tape mechan. have sense to use a ninja...also id is little to much expansime for a old cam like the GY HD series... But if you searching more quality , and hope to recording with ninja in a better HD with 4.2.2 color , of the tape/firewire is better look more confirmed and documets about...because thats cheap converters can not work good what you think... so...who can show little clips differents (with tape/firewire , and with ninja captured) ?!?

August 3rd, 2012, 04:34 AM	#10
Jimiz Zanei New Boot Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Latisana Udine Italy Posts: 23	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 more.. first remember , uncompressed and 4.2.2 video stream is only present on analog output in realtime use... so if first you record something to tape, and later you see the result from tape, the otuput analog have thesame quality of the tape..so 4.2.0 and compressed. For a real good test, you must recorder to the ninja with comp.>hdmi converter in live without tape .... and later recorder the same clip with tape... so you can make a real comparison with the 2 clip.... tape one...m2t , 720p 19mb 4.2.0 bit color and the ninja 720p ? compression better ? bit color 4.2.2 or the converter not work good from analog input and convert to 4.2.0 ??? this is important...or ofcourse you not can have incremente of quality with atoms ninja...before what you just recod to tape. can any one make a good test and look if there are visible benefits in both the bitrate in bit color ?? 4.2.2 if really present made a BIG different from 4.2.0 , specialy for croma key working , color corrections, and dynamic...

August 7th, 2012, 01:02 AM	#12
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 I fail to see how going to analogue and back can possibly improve picture quality. You might be able to record in 720 pro res but the D to A, then A back to D would seem to remove any of the advantages of the higher bit rates.

August 9th, 2012, 01:44 PM	#13
Jimiz Zanei New Boot Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Latisana Udine Italy Posts: 23	Re: Ninja/ jvc gyhd101 Depend If the converer (chip) not convert right the color bit 4.2.2 and compression without change...sure the quality can be better...BUT if the nija can really recorder a input really 4.2.2 from the jvc hd...must be better, meaby not soon with eyes look , but in editing with color corr. and croma key...IF is a really 4.2.2 you must see the different and can be little...if you see then thesame file but from tape or firewire. Sure, if the converter analog component to hdmi..not work well ...you can have a better files from tape. But we are sure the analog output of the jvc hd 1xx and 2xx , have a really 4.2.2 uncompressed video ? if yes...no one have try to made a acquisition from those input with a good pci cards HD of mac/pc ?? those videocards can recording HD analog component inputs , with 10 bit color... in this situation you can have the true... and see if the analog output is really 4.2.2, uncompressed and more better of the tape/firewire output.