HD100/101 missing features at DVinfo.net

Guy Barwood · August 15th, 2005, 06:19 AM

I would have thought that JVC would at least have taken all the features of their DV300 and DV5x00 that can be implemented on the HD10x, but it seems like, for no good reason they simply left these out:

Please correct me if any of these can be done:

1: No LCD + VF display option (both on at the same time) (DV300 has this)
2: No ability to use the LCD as a large audio level indicator like DV5x00 when you turn it around and mount it back in the body.
3: Gain increments are only 3dB, DV300 has 1dB gain increments and it is very good to have.
4: FAS button is impossible to get too without taking the camera off the sholder.
5: No front rec switch (under lens mount) making toggling rec on/off very difficult when holding the camera low.
6: No 5600K ND filter options on the wheel.

Are 1, 2 & 3 possible with a firmware upgrade?

Then you have:
1: Relatvely low res 4:3 displays. Shouldn't 16:9 be the priority?

Personally I find the DV300s gain wheel better overall than the limited 3 position switch. I'd prefere a slightly bigger body with more controls on the outside.

I'd love to have this camera, but I can really see how a HD200 was being planned even before the HD100 was released. These have to be concious decisions in the development given their use on their other models.

David Slingerland · August 15th, 2005, 08:42 AM

1) Your right, that option is not there, the sony hdv has it jvc not
2) your right
3) I disagree, what is missing is -3, -6. I think that could be useful.
4) FAS button? full auto? it was put way back so it could not be activated by accident. It was a request from many cameramen.
5) If you think about it that still should not be a problem, put the camera on and then hold it low, gives you also some preroll time. Tape is cheap.....
6) neutral density is neutral density, what you mean is ND with colorfilter. you don't need it.. you can whitebalance on any of the two ND filters or none. the camera can handle it. What is missing is two fixed presets, you only have one and you can store up to two.

I am going to do some serious testing tonight where we are going to hook up other formats and see how she fares...I wish I could all show you footage but Non of the NLE I use can see the format...so there is no way I can show you the footage...
Maybe I can make a dv dub and load that up to the server at dvinfo.net
we will have to see!! otherwise I can just tell you my findings and that of several professionals who are going to work together with me...
The test shall be done with DIGIBETA 790 DVCPRO 50 DVCAM and whatelse we can think of...no other HD formats and we will try to make the test fair. It will be done in house of company Dutchview facilities (they supply camera/crew to many dutch national broadcasters)

Chris Hurd · August 15th, 2005, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Maybe I can make a dv dub and load that up to the server at dvinfo.net

Just sent you an email about that. Thanks David,

Barry Green · August 15th, 2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Then you have:
1: Relatvely low res 4:3 displays. Shouldn't 16:9 be the priority?

No -- because the 4:3 monitor lets you put most of the display info OUTSIDE the picture area! It's very cool. If you had a 16:9 LCD, you'd geta 16:9 image, and you'd have all the timecode and shutter display and audio meters and all that covering up the image. With the 4:3 display you get a 16:9 image, and all that crud (or at least a lot of it) gets pushed off the frame and into the letterbox bars.

VERY much more user friendly.

Think of it as a 16:9 display that also has separate letterbox display bars for the camera feedback... it works quite nicely. And, even though the displays are relatively low-res, I've got to say that the focus assist works pretty darn well. You can accomplish reliable focus by relying solely on focus assist... that was a concern I had before spending time with the camera, but I'm not concerned about it anymore.

Guy Barwood · August 15th, 2005, 05:21 PM

"No -- because the 4:3 monitor lets you put most of the display info OUTSIDE the picture area!"
Unfortunately from what I have seen this isn't done very well and there is still a lot of overlap, hence they might as well have a 16:9 screen with more pixels.

David:
4: Really, there are so many other buttons that can still be activated by accident, why is this any difference. Heck, the record button is there now, thats terrible for 5x00 users used to going their for auto, the are going to turn the camera off now...

5: However how do you stop and start while holding in a low position. VERY difficult now. Perhaps a stop/start on the top handle would go down well.

6: OK, you are inside using the 3200K preset, and have to follow people outside (eg moving from indoor church to outdoors), you can't stop and take new white balance (there is literaly no time), but if you have ND+5600k you turn the wheel and your white balance is pretty much on, at least enough for only minor correction in post. With only ND, your colour balance is going to be way off.

"What is missing is two fixed presets, you only have one and you can store up to two."
You have preset, A, B. Are you saying you want to assign say 3200k to preset, and 5600k to A (and say auto to B). That would suite me fine as well in luie of the filter on the wheel.

Scott Webster · August 15th, 2005, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

" Are you saying you want to assign say 3200k to preset, and 5600k to A (and say auto to B). That would suite me fine as well in luie of the filter on the wheel.

Your preset can either be 3200 or 5600 assigned in the menu (pg 64 manual).
You can then assign one of the three 'user' buttons to the other whitebalance temp.(page 69 manual)

For example
White balance preset toggle is 3200
user 1 button is 5600

You can also assign FAW (full auto white balance) function to preset, A,B.
(pg 15,69 manual)

Guy Barwood · August 15th, 2005, 06:59 PM

So I can get pretty close to what I want.

Curtis Rhoads · August 15th, 2005, 08:50 PM

Just looking at the brochure here, and there's a button on the top of the handle labeled "REC". What's this button used for? My first thought is RECord start/stop, but I've been wrong before! :)

Chris Hurd · August 15th, 2005, 09:29 PM

That's exactly what it is; a record button.

See this photo in my HD100 image gallery:

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=299&c=20

Guy Barwood · August 16th, 2005, 12:42 AM

bugger me, there is one. Well then I should be able to live without it then. Just means in a low position, you'll hold the camera by the handle with the right hand (right handed person) rather than under the body.

Greg Boston · August 16th, 2005, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

bugger me, there is one. Well then I should be able to live without it then. Just means in a low position, you'll hold the camera by the handle with the right hand (right handed person) rather than under the body.

There wasn't one there on the early models shown at NAB. I lamented this fact right after seeing and holding the camera.

Apparently, they have decided to put one on there now. Good idea JVC!

-gb-

Chris Hurd · August 16th, 2005, 09:55 AM

Hey Greg, did you see the photos of the optional top-handle zoom controller?
(see gallery link in my post above)

At NAB when I dropped by the JVC booth to photograph the HD100, Ken Freed pointed it out to me and said that little gizmo was unwrapped and clamped on there for your own personal appeasement! See, they were listening to ya...

August 15th, 2005, 06:19 AM	#1
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	HD100/101 missing features I would have thought that JVC would at least have taken all the features of their DV300 and DV5x00 that can be implemented on the HD10x, but it seems like, for no good reason they simply left these out: Please correct me if any of these can be done: 1: No LCD + VF display option (both on at the same time) (DV300 has this) 2: No ability to use the LCD as a large audio level indicator like DV5x00 when you turn it around and mount it back in the body. 3: Gain increments are only 3dB, DV300 has 1dB gain increments and it is very good to have. 4: FAS button is impossible to get too without taking the camera off the sholder. 5: No front rec switch (under lens mount) making toggling rec on/off very difficult when holding the camera low. 6: No 5600K ND filter options on the wheel. Are 1, 2 & 3 possible with a firmware upgrade? Then you have: 1: Relatvely low res 4:3 displays. Shouldn't 16:9 be the priority? Personally I find the DV300s gain wheel better overall than the limited 3 position switch. I'd prefere a slightly bigger body with more controls on the outside. I'd love to have this camera, but I can really see how a HD200 was being planned even before the HD100 was released. These have to be concious decisions in the development given their use on their other models.

August 15th, 2005, 08:42 AM	#2
David Slingerland Major Player Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Soest ,Holland Posts: 307	1) Your right, that option is not there, the sony hdv has it jvc not 2) your right 3) I disagree, what is missing is -3, -6. I think that could be useful. 4) FAS button? full auto? it was put way back so it could not be activated by accident. It was a request from many cameramen. 5) If you think about it that still should not be a problem, put the camera on and then hold it low, gives you also some preroll time. Tape is cheap..... 6) neutral density is neutral density, what you mean is ND with colorfilter. you don't need it.. you can whitebalance on any of the two ND filters or none. the camera can handle it. What is missing is two fixed presets, you only have one and you can store up to two. I am going to do some serious testing tonight where we are going to hook up other formats and see how she fares...I wish I could all show you footage but Non of the NLE I use can see the format...so there is no way I can show you the footage... Maybe I can make a dv dub and load that up to the server at dvinfo.net we will have to see!! otherwise I can just tell you my findings and that of several professionals who are going to work together with me... The test shall be done with DIGIBETA 790 DVCPRO 50 DVCAM and whatelse we can think of...no other HD formats and we will try to make the test fair. It will be done in house of company Dutchview facilities (they supply camera/crew to many dutch national broadcasters) __________________ D.Slingerland director/cameraman http://www.slingerlandproductions.nl

August 15th, 2005, 09:29 PM	#9
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That's exactly what it is; a record button. See this photo in my HD100 image gallery: http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/showimage.php?i=299&c=20 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 16th, 2005, 09:55 AM	#12
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hey Greg, did you see the photos of the optional top-handle zoom controller? (see gallery link in my post above) At NAB when I dropped by the JVC booth to photograph the HD100, Ken Freed pointed it out to me and said that little gizmo was unwrapped and clamped on there for your own personal appeasement! See, they were listening to ya... __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 15th, 2005, 05:21 PM	#5
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	"No -- because the 4:3 monitor lets you put most of the display info OUTSIDE the picture area!" Unfortunately from what I have seen this isn't done very well and there is still a lot of overlap, hence they might as well have a 16:9 screen with more pixels. David: 4: Really, there are so many other buttons that can still be activated by accident, why is this any difference. Heck, the record button is there now, thats terrible for 5x00 users used to going their for auto, the are going to turn the camera off now... 5: However how do you stop and start while holding in a low position. VERY difficult now. Perhaps a stop/start on the top handle would go down well. 6: OK, you are inside using the 3200K preset, and have to follow people outside (eg moving from indoor church to outdoors), you can't stop and take new white balance (there is literaly no time), but if you have ND+5600k you turn the wheel and your white balance is pretty much on, at least enough for only minor correction in post. With only ND, your colour balance is going to be way off. "What is missing is two fixed presets, you only have one and you can store up to two." You have preset, A, B. Are you saying you want to assign say 3200k to preset, and 5600k to A (and say auto to B). That would suite me fine as well in luie of the filter on the wheel.

August 15th, 2005, 06:59 PM	#7
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	So I can get pretty close to what I want.

August 15th, 2005, 08:50 PM	#8
Curtis Rhoads Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orem, UT Posts: 76	Just looking at the brochure here, and there's a button on the top of the handle labeled "REC". What's this button used for? My first thought is RECord start/stop, but I've been wrong before! :)

August 16th, 2005, 12:42 AM	#10
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	bugger me, there is one. Well then I should be able to live without it then. Just means in a low position, you'll hold the camera by the handle with the right hand (right handed person) rather than under the body.