We are going to test one! ... your questions needed

Scott Webster · August 5th, 2005, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim R Young

The only problem we could find was when we put the camera up to 18db of gain one side of the screen was darker than the other and slightly discoloured ... maybe just a problem with this particular camera but might be worth watching out for??

Thanks,

Tim

Have a look at my post http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...t=48851&page=2. I'm beginning to think this is not a coincidence. Was one side of the screen showing red noise?
Was there any dead pixels after putting in gain?

Stephen Barries · August 6th, 2005, 12:30 AM

Tim posted: "We were told that the component HD output was actually superior to the recorded material. In other words 50 frames could be taken from the output when only 25 frames were recorded to the tape".

Is there some way we can capture these 50 frames to a hard drive or ?
I am sorry if this is answered somewhere else, I vaguely remember some posts awhile back but ...
Thanks,
Stephen

Sean Livingstone · August 6th, 2005, 12:36 AM

There has been talk about the firestore being able to record the 50 frames but havn't seen anything in writing yet.

Barry Green · August 6th, 2005, 02:02 AM

The FireStore will not be able to record anything that the tape can't record. It won't be possible for the FireStore to record the 720/50p or 720/60p modes.

Sean Livingstone · August 6th, 2005, 04:46 AM

oh ok so what would you need then?

Barry Green · August 6th, 2005, 01:22 PM

You cannot record the 50p mode unless you have some sort of analog uncompressed HD capture station. That's going to mean something that can write and store at least 167 megabytes per second(!), and that's just for 8-bit quality. If you want it quantized at 10 bit, you'll need more like 200 megabytes per second.

That's going to mean a RAID of hard disks, probably at least six. And a fast enough computer to handle the throughput. And an HD capture card. And that's all going to be expensive -- a wild guess says maybe $15,000. And it's not going to be portable at all -- this is going to be a desktop station.

And, on top of that, you'll need enough storage, because a gigabyte will only get you about 5 seconds of footage.

In other words, trying to record the uncompressed analog 50p output is pretty much fantasy. It ain't gonna happen, for the vast, vast, vast majority of circumstances.

Joe Carney · August 6th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Barry, you pretty much described what is often called 'The Video Village' when directors are using HD to make a movie. They mount them on something with wheels (usually a dark tent on a platform).

Seems like an powerful inverter (at least 3K) and a good sized deep cycle battery(at least 100 amp hrs) to keep it mobile.

Martin Costa · August 7th, 2005, 01:25 AM

Not something you can mount on your camera then. ;-)

Kevin Dooley · August 7th, 2005, 05:34 AM

That's certainly true of capturing it uncompressed. However, is there a codec you could capture in that would allow you to use say a laptop with some type of converter and a couple external drives? Could you capture it as DVCPRO HD?

I suppose in that case you could just run it to a deck, huh? So if you've already got a deck, or if you need it on an occasional basis, you could rent and still not feel like you're over doing it for a 1/3" HDV cam, huh?

Tommy James · August 7th, 2005, 03:36 PM

All you need to capture the 50 or 60 frames per secound is an HD-SDI converter that runs around 3000 dollars. Also JVC sells an MPEG-2 encoder for 30,000 dollars that can handle 720p60 so you don't have to record it to the hard drive in an uncompressed format.

Barry Green · August 8th, 2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommy James

All you need to capture the 50 or 60 frames per secound is an HD-SDI converter that runs around 3000 dollars.

No, all that will do is convert the analog signal to HD-SDI. You still need a RAID of hard disks to be able to capture that.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · August 8th, 2005, 07:07 AM

To add to Barry's comment, that's where the real bucks come in, because you'll need a RAID of at least 8 drives, 10 is better. Plus the controller. On another forum, there is a guy with a 6 drive, 15k spin drive speed RAID, who says it's working great, but I'm personally a little frightened of the faster speed drive systems.

Thomas Smet · August 8th, 2005, 07:56 AM

You can capture to other codecs that take up less space but you still need a desktop computer and currently it only works with Apple. With a Decklink card you can take a converted SDI output and capture to DVCPro HD which would work on normal harddrives. This would at least get rid of the need for a massive amount of expensive hard drives. You will still need a component to SDI converter.

No laptop out there has any type of SDI inputs so this will never work. Firewire is out of the question because of the encoder inside of the HD100. In order for a HDV signal to be sent via firewire it has to be encoded and the problem with the HD100 is that the encoder just cannot encode 50 or 60 frames per second. The best you will ever get from firewire and the HD100 is 24,25 or 30 fps.

On the PC side you could go with Prospect HD from Cineform. This again would still need a desktop but would allow you to capture almost uncompressed using the high quality Cineform codec and only taking up around as much as 20 MB/s which might still work on a fast normal hard drive.

Tommy James · August 8th, 2005, 04:53 PM

The problem with the JVC encoder is that it costs 30,000 dollars. So with an HD-SDI converter and a wireless router you can import uncompressed video into a desktop have it encoded using the DVC Pro HD codec and store it on a regular harddrive ?

Sean Livingstone · August 8th, 2005, 07:39 PM

This might seem very green, but all I would need to capture/Edit 60p is a HD-SDI convertor and computer system that could say run Cinform ProspectHD?

August 6th, 2005, 12:30 AM	#32
Stephen Barries New Boot Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: United States Posts: 13	capture to hard drive? Tim posted: "We were told that the component HD output was actually superior to the recorded material. In other words 50 frames could be taken from the output when only 25 frames were recorded to the tape". Is there some way we can capture these 50 frames to a hard drive or ? I am sorry if this is answered somewhere else, I vaguely remember some posts awhile back but ... Thanks, Stephen

August 7th, 2005, 05:34 AM	#39
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	That's certainly true of capturing it uncompressed. However, is there a codec you could capture in that would allow you to use say a laptop with some type of converter and a couple external drives? Could you capture it as DVCPRO HD? I suppose in that case you could just run it to a deck, huh? So if you've already got a deck, or if you need it on an occasional basis, you could rent and still not feel like you're over doing it for a 1/3" HDV cam, huh? __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

August 8th, 2005, 07:07 AM	#42
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	To add to Barry's comment, that's where the real bucks come in, because you'll need a RAID of at least 8 drives, 10 is better. Plus the controller. On another forum, there is a guy with a 6 drive, 15k spin drive speed RAID, who says it's working great, but I'm personally a little frightened of the faster speed drive systems. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

August 6th, 2005, 12:36 AM	#33
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	There has been talk about the firestore being able to record the 50 frames but havn't seen anything in writing yet.

August 6th, 2005, 02:02 AM	#34
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The FireStore will not be able to record anything that the tape can't record. It won't be possible for the FireStore to record the 720/50p or 720/60p modes.

August 6th, 2005, 04:46 AM	#35
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	oh ok so what would you need then?

August 6th, 2005, 01:22 PM	#36
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You cannot record the 50p mode unless you have some sort of analog uncompressed HD capture station. That's going to mean something that can write and store at least 167 megabytes per second(!), and that's just for 8-bit quality. If you want it quantized at 10 bit, you'll need more like 200 megabytes per second. That's going to mean a RAID of hard disks, probably at least six. And a fast enough computer to handle the throughput. And an HD capture card. And that's all going to be expensive -- a wild guess says maybe $15,000. And it's not going to be portable at all -- this is going to be a desktop station. And, on top of that, you'll need enough storage, because a gigabyte will only get you about 5 seconds of footage. In other words, trying to record the uncompressed analog 50p output is pretty much fantasy. It ain't gonna happen, for the vast, vast, vast majority of circumstances.

August 6th, 2005, 06:42 PM	#37
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	Barry, you pretty much described what is often called 'The Video Village' when directors are using HD to make a movie. They mount them on something with wheels (usually a dark tent on a platform). Seems like an powerful inverter (at least 3K) and a good sized deep cycle battery(at least 100 amp hrs) to keep it mobile.

August 7th, 2005, 01:25 AM	#38
Martin Costa Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London UK Posts: 76 Images: 2	Not something you can mount on your camera then. ;-)

August 7th, 2005, 03:36 PM	#40
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	All you need to capture the 50 or 60 frames per secound is an HD-SDI converter that runs around 3000 dollars. Also JVC sells an MPEG-2 encoder for 30,000 dollars that can handle 720p60 so you don't have to record it to the hard drive in an uncompressed format.

August 8th, 2005, 07:56 AM	#43
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	You can capture to other codecs that take up less space but you still need a desktop computer and currently it only works with Apple. With a Decklink card you can take a converted SDI output and capture to DVCPro HD which would work on normal harddrives. This would at least get rid of the need for a massive amount of expensive hard drives. You will still need a component to SDI converter. No laptop out there has any type of SDI inputs so this will never work. Firewire is out of the question because of the encoder inside of the HD100. In order for a HDV signal to be sent via firewire it has to be encoded and the problem with the HD100 is that the encoder just cannot encode 50 or 60 frames per second. The best you will ever get from firewire and the HD100 is 24,25 or 30 fps. On the PC side you could go with Prospect HD from Cineform. This again would still need a desktop but would allow you to capture almost uncompressed using the high quality Cineform codec and only taking up around as much as 20 MB/s which might still work on a fast normal hard drive.

August 8th, 2005, 04:53 PM	#44
Tommy James suspended -- contact admin Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 214	The problem with the JVC encoder is that it costs 30,000 dollars. So with an HD-SDI converter and a wireless router you can import uncompressed video into a desktop have it encoded using the DVC Pro HD codec and store it on a regular harddrive ?

August 8th, 2005, 07:39 PM	#45
Sean Livingstone Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 53	This might seem very green, but all I would need to capture/Edit 60p is a HD-SDI convertor and computer system that could say run Cinform ProspectHD?