Anybody shot a dance concert in 720P?

[John Mitchell]

Hate to cross post but didn't get much response over in the special events area so I figured I'd ask the regular JVC users here..

Because I'm using a couple of HM700s I'll also be using my HD101E I would like to shoot the whole thing in 720P25 - I'm wondering if this will work with how fast dance concerts can move or whether I'll see too much progressive "stutter" - I'm assuming that if I do it this way I'll shoot 720P25 with 1/50th shutter?

I've always shot 50i standard def in the past so I need t know if there are any "gotchas" as well, when outputting an SD DVD? workflow is Avid multicam - Procoder - Encore CS3..

[Jack Walker]

I and someone I know have regulary shot dance performances at 24p with a Canon XH-A1.

At a recent dance performance a major venue in California, the hired videographer used to of the original HD100 cameras, so he was shooting in either 24p or 30p.

The final results will depend on your workflow and viewing machines (player/monitor).

The video will look different from interlaced footage, and some may or may not like it. However, dancers moving in the frame and following dancers is not a problem to me. Panning about on moving dancers in multicolors is not workable... and liable to induce Bourne nausea.

[Alex Humphrey]

Depends how good of camera operators you have. If they are knolwedgable of shooting film (24fps) then you will have no problems. I haven't seen a movie yet at the theaters that wasn't shot 24p, and no one ever complained about juttering on TITANIC or STAR WARS or the dance musicals of the 40's and 50's. If your camera operators are videographers, then you might run into problems because they may or may not be used to how to handle slower frame rates and shutter speeds.

So in general, same old same old. 24p/25p at 1/48th or 1/50th (NTSC/PAL) and pan with movement and no panning in an empty motionless scene unless you absoultly can't help it.

Old rule is if you HAVE to pan in an empty scene, then something entering from one side of the frame and exiting the other side of the frame should take no less than 5 or 6 seconds to avoid the shuddering look.. of you can pan quickly (snap pan). but you will not be happy with the panning that videographers tend to get used to in the 60i/50i world.

Advantages of 24p/25p will be your DVD's distribution will look better on modern DVD players when viewed on an HDTV than 60i/50i. 60i/50i will look pretty good, but you will be relying on the consumer's HDTV's deinterlacer for viewing. Just avoid 30p like the Black Death.. Does your Pal camera even have a 30p? 30p in NTSC is really only good for internet and a poor cross convesion to 60i, though not terrible.

Haven't used Adobe Premier or Avid in over a decade... so no insight there.

so if you can, and have time, show up for some rehersals and shoot one camera 25p and one 50i and work through the process to DVD it yourself and see if everyone's advise works for you. If you don't have time, try to tape something similar.. (I guess I should say "Shoot" or "Aquire" since you are not running tape in your 700) if all else fails, a local sporting event. I think once you nail 25p you won't want to go back to 50i, but I'm reall, REALLY predjadiced for progressive over interlaced, so I MIGHT not be the fairest advice giver. But if you realize that you can't get all the camera operators to handle 25p like you hope or want them too..... then..... it will be SAFER to record everything in 50i and not try to bring all 3 operators up to speed if they have little or no experience with 25p.

But in short.. 24p/25 is very easy to do good fast motion once you got it down. I even record soccer (Football to everone else in the world outside of the US) in 24p.. though my slow motin instant replays wouldn't be as nice as say a 60p source slowed down to 24p compared to my 24p slowed 50% would be.... but that is a whole other thread for slow motion sourcework.

[John Mitchell]

Alex and jack - thanks so much for your generous advice...

[Shaun Roemich]

As Jack alludes, there is a different motion characteristic to 24/25P that some clients love, some clients hate and most clients can't really put their fingers on. IF you need to satisfy a SPECIFIC client (as opposed to selling copies to all the participants, friends and families) I would consider letting THEM view a sample to ensure you don't end up with comments like "why is that so jerky/stuttery..."