HDV or 24p? at DVinfo.net

Jesse Bekas · March 10th, 2005, 02:10 PM

(gotta love a catchy title ; ) )

Anyway, I noticed in the supposed specs thread that 720p24 was listed as a shooting mode. How is that possible if the camera is supposed to be HDV? Do you guys think it's simply "HDV compatible?"

Kenn Christenson · March 10th, 2005, 02:18 PM

I'm pretty sure 24p will be handled in HDV the same way it is handled in SD DV, i.e. 3:2 pulldown, which will be removed in post.

Sean Dinwoodie · March 10th, 2005, 02:47 PM

1. They are not "supposed" specs. Although there has been no company PR, we were permitted to release the limited specs. If you do a search on us you will find that we have been very involved in HDV since the begining. Our footage was shown at the HD booth last nab.

2. There will be no pull down. TRUE 24P. True the HDV specs do not carry 24P. Sony has to protect it's higher end market (for now anyway)...Therefore this camera is HDV/DV compatible with a new 720 24P 19Mps MTS format.

Regards,

Sean Dinwoodie
Engineer/DP
indietoolbox.com
Chief Engineer - Hollywood Studio Rentals

For All those interested, as select JVC Pro AV Reseller we will begin taking deposits in the next few days at the shop. Please contact us through our website http://www.HollywoodStudioRentals.com or call us at 818-526-0101

Jesse Bekas · March 10th, 2005, 05:32 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Sean Dinwoodie : 1. They are not "supposed" specs. Although there has been no company PR, we were permitted to release the limited specs. If you do a search on us you will find that we have been very involved in HDV since the begining. Our footage was shown at the HD booth last nab.

2. There will be no pull down. TRUE 24P. True the HDV specs do not carry 24P. Sony has to protect it's higher end market (for now anyway)...Therefore this camera is HDV/DV compatible with a new 720 24P 19Mps MTS format.-->>>

I wasn't insinuating that the specs you listed were a lie or a guess, only that I don't think they'd be considered "official" until they are released by JVC at NAB.

1) Is there more info available about the 24P, HDV compatible spec yet, or do we have to wait for the cam to be released?

2) Is Sony the sole reason 24p was left out of the original HDV spec?

Chris Hurd · March 10th, 2005, 05:37 PM

Well, Sean was very fortunate to have attended a "sneak peek" at the camera, and I seriously doubt that anything he has said is going to conflict with what JVC reveal at its official announcement. I'm just glad he chose to share it with us!

Heath McKnight · March 12th, 2005, 10:28 PM

ProHD, a variation on the original HDV spec, because it does 24p.

heath

Chris Hurd · March 12th, 2005, 10:30 PM

Heath's right and you've got to remember that 24p wasn't supposed to be part of the DV spec either, and yet there are several DV cameras that do 24p now.

Heath McKnight · March 12th, 2005, 10:43 PM

Well, 2 anyway (DVX100A and XL-2). I'm excited about this camera, even if it is 720p. A lot of my friends dig the VariCam a lot, so this could be the VariCam of HDV.

heath

Greg Jacobson · March 13th, 2005, 11:08 AM

So when this camera is in 24p it is not also in HDV mode?

That may allow JVC to do the audio differently than the MPEG1 audio on the HDV cams.

Heath McKnight · March 13th, 2005, 11:49 AM

Yes, HDV 720p24. We have a TON of awesome information:

www.hdvinfo.net

SO CHECK IT OUT! ;-)

heath

Barry Green · March 14th, 2005, 12:11 AM

It was my understanding that its 24p mode was *not* HDV compatible, that it was instead a newly-developed transport stream, similar to those used by HDV, but outside the HDV specification. I could be wrong on this, and it may be just carrying 24p frames within a 60i or 30P HDV stream, but for reasons elucidated elsewhere, that would not be optimal.

If it's a new format, that would indeed let them expand upon the spec, but it would mean that it may not be supported by editing programs that support HDV. However, I'd vote that they do it "right" anyway, and the editing programs may well adapt quickly -- it should be very similar to HDV, just a different frame rate.

Heath McKnight · March 14th, 2005, 08:27 AM

Right, Barry, 24p is a new thing to HDV and it's a variation, ProHD.

heath

Jesse Bekas · March 14th, 2005, 09:08 AM

I think it's kind of funny that they put "Pro" in the variation and removed "HDV."

EDIT - I'm not knockin' the format; it just seems like a little bit of spin to me.

Jesse Bekas · March 14th, 2005, 09:18 AM

Doesd anybody have any guesses about what the GOP length might be for 24P? If shorter than 30P, that makes the format even more acceptable to shoot on. I'm still not sure about editing.

Heath McKnight · March 14th, 2005, 09:23 AM

None of us know about editing--it may be another year before anyone has anything...

heath

March 10th, 2005, 02:10 PM	#1
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	HDV or 24p? (gotta love a catchy title ; ) ) Anyway, I noticed in the supposed specs thread that 720p24 was listed as a shooting mode. How is that possible if the camera is supposed to be HDV? Do you guys think it's simply "HDV compatible?"

March 10th, 2005, 05:37 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Well, Sean was very fortunate to have attended a "sneak peek" at the camera, and I seriously doubt that anything he has said is going to conflict with what JVC reveal at its official announcement. I'm just glad he chose to share it with us! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 12th, 2005, 10:28 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	ProHD, a variation on the original HDV spec, because it does 24p. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 12th, 2005, 10:30 PM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Heath's right and you've got to remember that 24p wasn't supposed to be part of the DV spec either, and yet there are several DV cameras that do 24p now. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 12th, 2005, 10:43 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Well, 2 anyway (DVX100A and XL-2). I'm excited about this camera, even if it is 720p. A lot of my friends dig the VariCam a lot, so this could be the VariCam of HDV. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 10th, 2005, 02:18 PM	#2
Kenn Christenson Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Medford Oregon Posts: 152	I'm pretty sure 24p will be handled in HDV the same way it is handled in SD DV, i.e. 3:2 pulldown, which will be removed in post.

March 10th, 2005, 02:47 PM	#3
Sean Dinwoodie Hollywood Studio Rentals Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 26	1. They are not "supposed" specs. Although there has been no company PR, we were permitted to release the limited specs. If you do a search on us you will find that we have been very involved in HDV since the begining. Our footage was shown at the HD booth last nab. 2. There will be no pull down. TRUE 24P. True the HDV specs do not carry 24P. Sony has to protect it's higher end market (for now anyway)...Therefore this camera is HDV/DV compatible with a new 720 24P 19Mps MTS format. Regards, Sean Dinwoodie Engineer/DP indietoolbox.com Chief Engineer - Hollywood Studio Rentals For All those interested, as select JVC Pro AV Reseller we will begin taking deposits in the next few days at the shop. Please contact us through our website http://www.HollywoodStudioRentals.com or call us at 818-526-0101

March 10th, 2005, 05:32 PM	#4
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	<<<-- Originally posted by Sean Dinwoodie : 1. They are not "supposed" specs. Although there has been no company PR, we were permitted to release the limited specs. If you do a search on us you will find that we have been very involved in HDV since the begining. Our footage was shown at the HD booth last nab. 2. There will be no pull down. TRUE 24P. True the HDV specs do not carry 24P. Sony has to protect it's higher end market (for now anyway)...Therefore this camera is HDV/DV compatible with a new 720 24P 19Mps MTS format.-->>> I wasn't insinuating that the specs you listed were a lie or a guess, only that I don't think they'd be considered "official" until they are released by JVC at NAB. 1) Is there more info available about the 24P, HDV compatible spec yet, or do we have to wait for the cam to be released? 2) Is Sony the sole reason 24p was left out of the original HDV spec?

March 13th, 2005, 11:08 AM	#9
Greg Jacobson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: New York Posts: 141	So when this camera is in 24p it is not also in HDV mode? That may allow JVC to do the audio differently than the MPEG1 audio on the HDV cams.

March 13th, 2005, 11:49 AM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Yes, HDV 720p24. We have a TON of awesome information: www.hdvinfo.net SO CHECK IT OUT! ;-) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 14th, 2005, 12:11 AM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	It was my understanding that its 24p mode was not HDV compatible, that it was instead a newly-developed transport stream, similar to those used by HDV, but outside the HDV specification. I could be wrong on this, and it may be just carrying 24p frames within a 60i or 30P HDV stream, but for reasons elucidated elsewhere, that would not be optimal. If it's a new format, that would indeed let them expand upon the spec, but it would mean that it may not be supported by editing programs that support HDV. However, I'd vote that they do it "right" anyway, and the editing programs may well adapt quickly -- it should be very similar to HDV, just a different frame rate.

March 14th, 2005, 08:27 AM	#12
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Right, Barry, 24p is a new thing to HDV and it's a variation, ProHD. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 14th, 2005, 09:08 AM	#13
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	I think it's kind of funny that they put "Pro" in the variation and removed "HDV." EDIT - I'm not knockin' the format; it just seems like a little bit of spin to me.

March 14th, 2005, 09:18 AM	#14
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Doesd anybody have any guesses about what the GOP length might be for 24P? If shorter than 30P, that makes the format even more acceptable to shoot on. I'm still not sure about editing.

March 14th, 2005, 09:23 AM	#15
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	None of us know about editing--it may be another year before anyone has anything... heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog