P+S Mini35C versus HZCA13U Help! at DVinfo.net

James Patrick · July 25th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Recently, I decided to get an JVC HZCA13u to go with my JVC HD200u camera.. of course the price of buying a set of Prime lenses, even used primes is hindering me at the moment.

I have a question as to how the P+S mini35C with prime lenses compares to the HZCA13u with prime lenses?

Mainly, it looks like the mini35C supports both 35MM still lenses and PL Mount cine lenses which is an added flexibility the HZCA13u does not have.

Does anyone have any exprience comparing the two?

All help is greatly appreciated!

James

Michael Galvan · July 25th, 2009, 07:34 PM

From my understanding, they will give 2 different looks to your footage.

The mini35c will give you 35mm depth of field to your footage.

The JVC adapter will allow you to use PL primes on your camera, but it is still the same depth of field as the stock lens.

Tim Dashwood · July 26th, 2009, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

The JVC adapter will allow you to use PL primes on your camera, but it is still the same depth of field as the stock lens.

Actually, the Field of View and DoF characteristics are the same as 16mm (or 2/3")

James Patrick · July 26th, 2009, 08:20 AM

Thanks for responding guys

according to P+S there is a PL Lens mount option for the mini35C making cine prime lenses available to it just like the HZCA13U.

However, they don't go into detail regarding the same DOF/FOV as 16mm or 35mm cine lenses as the HZCA13U does.

Tim do you have any opinion on the two? mini35c versus HZCA13U

I know if i go down the route of the mini35c i am locking myself into it as a solution that is tied to pretty much my camera although they said it works with the new 700 series JVC's

Tim Dashwood · July 26th, 2009, 10:31 PM

The mini35c has the same "gate" size as super-35. The P+S products are top-of-the-line German engineered products and are highly regarded. I haven't tested this new version but it does fit directly on the 1/3" bayonet mount with its own relay lens.
It is very compact, mostly because it lacks the "flip" system that its predecessors had. That's not a problem for the HD200, HD250, HM700 or HPX300 which can do the "flip" electronically.

James Patrick · July 27th, 2009, 06:27 AM

Thanks again Tim

Amos Kim · August 2nd, 2009, 07:36 PM

anybody know if there is footage of mini35c and ProHD existing on the net? Very curious about this new product. thanks

James Patrick · August 3rd, 2009, 08:39 AM

I found this awhile back

Caprice on Vimeo

Claude Mangold · August 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM

I've worked with both (mini35-400 though)
the jvc adapter of course does more than give u a super-16 frame & dof, it allows you to use 16 and 35 primes, has amazing optical qualities (+1 stop).
drawbacks, too: painstaking adjustments in the menu to correct red/green , and the need to have perfectly matched sets of prime lenses, i.e. very expensive rentals
you don't need to make these adjustments with the mini35 when u change lens.
i use the mini35 more often but would prefer the jvc if i worked more with 16mm . it has no moving parts, no motors, no additional wiring etc.

bigger dof with the jvc also means easier shooting, focus pullers not absolutely needed etc.etc.

the image quality, with 35mm primes, is slightly better with the jvc adapter - as a matter of fact, it's amazing.

Amos Kim · August 5th, 2009, 07:56 PM

a few questions:
1. why do you have to adjust red/green with jvc adapter?
2. why is there a need to have perfectly matched 16mm lenses v.s. 35mm lenses?
3. can 35mm lenses be used with the jvc adapter?

Tim Dashwood · August 6th, 2009, 07:40 AM

Every lens you put on a camera has slightly different characteristics and these are carried through the HZ-CA13U because it is a direct optical system. In the case of the mini35 there is really only one lens providing the image to the CCDs, the relay lens, so this isn't such a big deal.
However, with an optical system like the HZ-CA13U separate profiles for each lens you use need to be made and saved onto the SD card.
Claude was referring to white shading adjustments that need to be made for each lens. White Shading compensates for the a type of chromatic aberration in 3-CCDs systems where one side or area of the image will tend to be green or magenta (typically top and bottom.) The HD200/250 and HM700 all have this ability... the HD100 and HD110 do not.

In my testing of different lens series I found that the Zeiss Ultra Primes required very little adjustment from lens to lens, but one would expect that from a top-of-the-line lens series. On the other hand, the old Zeiss standard speeds required individual adjustments for each lens.

And yes... 35mm lens can be used with the HZ-CA13U. I even have a friend using Hasselblad lenses with a PL mount adapter! You will be using the centre of the lens, which is typically the sharpest area.

James Patrick · August 6th, 2009, 08:20 AM

If I am not mistaken,
The mini35C has a PL Mount option which will also allow you to use 35mm prime lenses
They call it the IMS Interchangeable Mount System

Does this sound correct to you guys?

Tim Dashwood · August 6th, 2009, 09:15 AM

Yes. You HAVE to use 35mm coverage lenses with the P+S mini35 or mini35c, whether they be PL mount or Nikon, Canon, etc. Otherwise you will have one nasty vignette!

Amos Kim · August 6th, 2009, 08:56 PM

so tim, would you not recommend the jvc copla on the hd100 because of the lack of white shading function? thanks

Tim Dashwood · August 6th, 2009, 10:10 PM

Good question. There are two reasons you wouldn't want to use the HZ-CA13U COPLA on the HD100 series. First is the lack of image-rotate in the camera. Second is the lack of White Shading.

However.... white shading can be fixed in post. I've been designing a FCP/Motion/AE plugin to compensate for the type of white shading adjustment required with the JVC cameras.

July 25th, 2009, 03:26 PM	#1
James Patrick New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orange Count California Posts: 21	P+S Mini35C versus HZCA13U Help! Recently, I decided to get an JVC HZCA13u to go with my JVC HD200u camera.. of course the price of buying a set of Prime lenses, even used primes is hindering me at the moment. I have a question as to how the P+S mini35C with prime lenses compares to the HZCA13u with prime lenses? Mainly, it looks like the mini35C supports both 35MM still lenses and PL Mount cine lenses which is an added flexibility the HZCA13u does not have. Does anyone have any exprience comparing the two? All help is greatly appreciated! James

July 25th, 2009, 07:34 PM	#2
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	From my understanding, they will give 2 different looks to your footage. The mini35c will give you 35mm depth of field to your footage. The JVC adapter will allow you to use PL primes on your camera, but it is still the same depth of field as the stock lens. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

July 26th, 2009, 10:31 PM	#5
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	The mini35c has the same "gate" size as super-35. The P+S products are top-of-the-line German engineered products and are highly regarded. I haven't tested this new version but it does fit directly on the 1/3" bayonet mount with its own relay lens. It is very compact, mostly because it lacks the "flip" system that its predecessors had. That's not a problem for the HD200, HD250, HM700 or HPX300 which can do the "flip" electronically. __________________ Tim Dashwood

August 6th, 2009, 07:40 AM	#11
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Every lens you put on a camera has slightly different characteristics and these are carried through the HZ-CA13U because it is a direct optical system. In the case of the mini35 there is really only one lens providing the image to the CCDs, the relay lens, so this isn't such a big deal. However, with an optical system like the HZ-CA13U separate profiles for each lens you use need to be made and saved onto the SD card. Claude was referring to white shading adjustments that need to be made for each lens. White Shading compensates for the a type of chromatic aberration in 3-CCDs systems where one side or area of the image will tend to be green or magenta (typically top and bottom.) The HD200/250 and HM700 all have this ability... the HD100 and HD110 do not. In my testing of different lens series I found that the Zeiss Ultra Primes required very little adjustment from lens to lens, but one would expect that from a top-of-the-line lens series. On the other hand, the old Zeiss standard speeds required individual adjustments for each lens. And yes... 35mm lens can be used with the HZ-CA13U. I even have a friend using Hasselblad lenses with a PL mount adapter! You will be using the centre of the lens, which is typically the sharpest area. __________________ Tim Dashwood

August 6th, 2009, 09:15 AM	#13
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Yes. You HAVE to use 35mm coverage lenses with the P+S mini35 or mini35c, whether they be PL mount or Nikon, Canon, etc. Otherwise you will have one nasty vignette! __________________ Tim Dashwood

July 26th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#4
James Patrick New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orange Count California Posts: 21	Thanks for responding guys according to P+S there is a PL Lens mount option for the mini35C making cine prime lenses available to it just like the HZCA13U. However, they don't go into detail regarding the same DOF/FOV as 16mm or 35mm cine lenses as the HZCA13U does. Tim do you have any opinion on the two? mini35c versus HZCA13U I know if i go down the route of the mini35c i am locking myself into it as a solution that is tied to pretty much my camera although they said it works with the new 700 series JVC's

July 27th, 2009, 06:27 AM	#6
James Patrick New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orange Count California Posts: 21	Thanks again Tim

August 2nd, 2009, 07:36 PM	#7
Amos Kim Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 335	anybody know if there is footage of mini35c and ProHD existing on the net? Very curious about this new product. thanks

August 3rd, 2009, 08:39 AM	#8
James Patrick New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orange Count California Posts: 21	I found this awhile back Caprice on Vimeo

August 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM	#9
Claude Mangold Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Berlin and Geneva Posts: 259	I've worked with both (mini35-400 though) the jvc adapter of course does more than give u a super-16 frame & dof, it allows you to use 16 and 35 primes, has amazing optical qualities (+1 stop). drawbacks, too: painstaking adjustments in the menu to correct red/green , and the need to have perfectly matched sets of prime lenses, i.e. very expensive rentals you don't need to make these adjustments with the mini35 when u change lens. i use the mini35 more often but would prefer the jvc if i worked more with 16mm . it has no moving parts, no motors, no additional wiring etc. bigger dof with the jvc also means easier shooting, focus pullers not absolutely needed etc.etc. the image quality, with 35mm primes, is slightly better with the jvc adapter - as a matter of fact, it's amazing.

August 5th, 2009, 07:56 PM	#10
Amos Kim Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 335	a few questions: 1. why do you have to adjust red/green with jvc adapter? 2. why is there a need to have perfectly matched 16mm lenses v.s. 35mm lenses? 3. can 35mm lenses be used with the jvc adapter?

August 6th, 2009, 08:20 AM	#12
James Patrick New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Orange Count California Posts: 21	If I am not mistaken, The mini35C has a PL Mount option which will also allow you to use 35mm prime lenses They call it the IMS Interchangeable Mount System Does this sound correct to you guys?

August 6th, 2009, 08:56 PM	#14
Amos Kim Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 335	so tim, would you not recommend the jvc copla on the hd100 because of the lack of white shading function? thanks

August 6th, 2009, 10:10 PM	#15
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Good question. There are two reasons you wouldn't want to use the HZ-CA13U COPLA on the HD100 series. First is the lack of image-rotate in the camera. Second is the lack of White Shading. However.... white shading can be fixed in post. I've been designing a FCP/Motion/AE plugin to compensate for the type of white shading adjustment required with the JVC cameras. __________________ Tim Dashwood