drop out issues with jvc101 at DVinfo.net

Ian Skurrie · April 29th, 2009, 03:57 AM

I am getting severe drop outs when recording HDV.

I have had the entire tape tranpsort mechanism (drum, heads, guides, pinch roller,)replaced about 4 months ago. The Melbourne (Australia) service engineer has looked at the camera and cleaned it thouroughly, checked the tape tensions and checked the rf response off the tape which was perfect. I picked up the camera and checked it at the servicer centre at the engineers invitation and there was no problem, ie no drop outs.I took it out on the job, checked it immediately I took the camera out of the car and it was still fine. I waited 30 minutes in the cold (9 degrees C) for my interviewee and shot the interview. Upon checking the footage it was full of drop outs. I took the camera home and tested it in a warm room and found no drop outs.

The service engineer is at a loss to know what's wrong???

Any ideas???

regards
Ian Skurrie

Phil Balsdon · April 29th, 2009, 04:39 PM

Is this always with the same tape stock?

Mixing brands or types of stock is not recommended, I went through something similar myself and now only use JVC HDV stock.

Must also add that the DR HD100 Firestore has always been more reliable than tape and speeds up the workflow tremendously.

Ian Skurrie · April 29th, 2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Balsdon

Is this always with the same tape stock?

Mixing brands or types of stock is not recommended, I went through something similar myself and now only use JVC HDV stock.

Must also add that the DR HD100 Firestore has always been more reliable than tape and speeds up the workflow tremendously.

Thanks for the suggestion Phil, the original reason why the tape mechanism was replaced a few months ago was that the head drum had been worn probably by using tdk tape stock.
Since I have had the new mechanism I have used Sony pro stock exclusively so unfortunately this is not going to be the answer. In another thread someone mentioned the use of a special sandwich plate plus using the new SXS recorder, I'm wondering if this might work with the 101.

regards
Ian Skurrie

Robert Rogoz · April 29th, 2009, 07:53 PM

Ian, it could be cold and humidity. You also might have picked up some dust particles as well. 9C should not effect the tape, but it might. I shoot a lot in cold weather (-5 to -15C range) and tape is notorious for acting up. I switched to DR-HD100 unit and it's better, but not perfect.
What I do is put a new tape, fast forward it and rewind it a few times to get any dust of the mechanism. I just have one cassette I use it for that reason, don't use a head cleaning cassette, as it usually damages the surface (something one of the technicians told me some time ago).
Also keeping the cassettes under your coat on colder days helps to prevent such incidents.

Phil Balsdon · April 30th, 2009, 04:32 AM

Hi Ian,
The stock you are using is the stock that caused me so much grief. I was trying to be diplomatic by not mentioning brands. It jammed in the camera and unwound itself in the mechanism and when it didn't jam was full of drop outs, not just once but a number of times with different client's stock.

Originally I only used Panasonic before the problems, since I have only used JVC HDV, neither of these brands have given me problems.

I now insist that I provide stock or the client provide JVC HDV tapes.

Ian Skurrie · April 30th, 2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Balsdon

Hi Ian,
The stock you are using is the stock that caused me so much grief. I was trying to be diplomatic by not mentioning brands. It jammed in the camera and unwound itself in the mechanism and when it didn't jam was full of drop outs, not just once but a number of times with different client's stock.

Originally I only used Panasonic before the problems, since I have only used JVC HDV, neither of these brands have given me problems.

I now insist that I provide stock or the client provide JVC HDV tapes.

I will grab some panasonic tapes today and see how I go. Thanks for your reply

By the way with further experimentation I have found that I am only having problems with 720p, with DV or HDV-SD50p there are no drop outs at all.

regards
Ian Skurrie

Phil Balsdon · May 1st, 2009, 07:11 AM

Be sure to put a head cleaning tape through the camera before using the Panasonic tapes. You could end up with even more problems due to mixing of incompatible tape compounds from the two types of tape.

Steve Oakley · May 2nd, 2009, 08:12 PM

right. Sony tape has been nothing but bad news for me too in JVC.

I"m using Maxell Master 63 tapes which are the same as Panasonic AMQ's, but $1 cheaper. they have been very good after having run thru maybe 40 of them so far.

Ian Skurrie · May 5th, 2009, 07:45 PM

I have discussed my camera's problems with the repair engineer who in turn has discussed the issue with the head JVC Engineer in Australia. They don't seem to believe that the issue is tape based simply because the problem only shows up in 25P and 24p modes and not in hdv-sd50p or DV interlaced or progressive modes. They think it may be related to circuitry and the exacerbation of the problem in cooler temperatures would seem to confirm this.So the camera goes back into the repair establishment tomorrow for further testing. Has anyone had these symptoms of long horizontal drop outs related to electronic problems rather than mechanical faults such as alignment or tape issues???

regards
Ian Skurrie

Brian Luce · May 5th, 2009, 10:54 PM

get a firestore. they're dirt cheap now.

April 29th, 2009, 03:57 AM	#1
Ian Skurrie Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mooroolbark, Victoria, AU Posts: 63	drop out issues with jvc101 I am getting severe drop outs when recording HDV. I have had the entire tape tranpsort mechanism (drum, heads, guides, pinch roller,)replaced about 4 months ago. The Melbourne (Australia) service engineer has looked at the camera and cleaned it thouroughly, checked the tape tensions and checked the rf response off the tape which was perfect. I picked up the camera and checked it at the servicer centre at the engineers invitation and there was no problem, ie no drop outs.I took it out on the job, checked it immediately I took the camera out of the car and it was still fine. I waited 30 minutes in the cold (9 degrees C) for my interviewee and shot the interview. Upon checking the footage it was full of drop outs. I took the camera home and tested it in a warm room and found no drop outs. The service engineer is at a loss to know what's wrong??? Any ideas??? regards Ian Skurrie

May 5th, 2009, 07:45 PM	#9
Ian Skurrie Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Mooroolbark, Victoria, AU Posts: 63	tape issue I have discussed my camera's problems with the repair engineer who in turn has discussed the issue with the head JVC Engineer in Australia. They don't seem to believe that the issue is tape based simply because the problem only shows up in 25P and 24p modes and not in hdv-sd50p or DV interlaced or progressive modes. They think it may be related to circuitry and the exacerbation of the problem in cooler temperatures would seem to confirm this.So the camera goes back into the repair establishment tomorrow for further testing. Has anyone had these symptoms of long horizontal drop outs related to electronic problems rather than mechanical faults such as alignment or tape issues??? regards Ian Skurrie

April 29th, 2009, 04:39 PM	#2
Phil Balsdon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91	Is this always with the same tape stock? Mixing brands or types of stock is not recommended, I went through something similar myself and now only use JVC HDV stock. Must also add that the DR HD100 Firestore has always been more reliable than tape and speeds up the workflow tremendously.

April 29th, 2009, 07:53 PM	#4
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Ian, it could be cold and humidity. You also might have picked up some dust particles as well. 9C should not effect the tape, but it might. I shoot a lot in cold weather (-5 to -15C range) and tape is notorious for acting up. I switched to DR-HD100 unit and it's better, but not perfect. What I do is put a new tape, fast forward it and rewind it a few times to get any dust of the mechanism. I just have one cassette I use it for that reason, don't use a head cleaning cassette, as it usually damages the surface (something one of the technicians told me some time ago). Also keeping the cassettes under your coat on colder days helps to prevent such incidents.

April 30th, 2009, 04:32 AM	#5
Phil Balsdon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91	Hi Ian, The stock you are using is the stock that caused me so much grief. I was trying to be diplomatic by not mentioning brands. It jammed in the camera and unwound itself in the mechanism and when it didn't jam was full of drop outs, not just once but a number of times with different client's stock. Originally I only used Panasonic before the problems, since I have only used JVC HDV, neither of these brands have given me problems. I now insist that I provide stock or the client provide JVC HDV tapes.

May 1st, 2009, 07:11 AM	#7
Phil Balsdon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91	Be sure to put a head cleaning tape through the camera before using the Panasonic tapes. You could end up with even more problems due to mixing of incompatible tape compounds from the two types of tape.

May 2nd, 2009, 08:12 PM	#8
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	right. Sony tape has been nothing but bad news for me too in JVC. I"m using Maxell Master 63 tapes which are the same as Panasonic AMQ's, but $1 cheaper. they have been very good after having run thru maybe 40 of them so far.

May 5th, 2009, 10:54 PM	#10
Brian Luce Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2,290	get a firestore. they're dirt cheap now.