Newbie with HD110 - Documentary settings advice please. at DVinfo.net

Tom Koveleskie · April 16th, 2009, 02:30 PM

I have so many years of threads to go over that my head is swimming lol.

I have been experimenting with the HD110 hooked up to my HD monitor. Trying different settings and scene recipes. I am trying to come up with the best settings for my upcoming doc. I have "Magic Bullet Looks Suite" and plan to do most processing in post production. Would shooting the camera flat in HDV default mode be the best bet? Also what frame rate would be the wisest choice for final delivery for possible cable/satellite broadcast and DVD. 24P? Am I right in thinking that progressive can be turned into interlace just by outputting as i from my NLE or transferring to an interlaced tape deck. Bottom line is I need to cover all the bases for possible release.

I will be using plenty of light for people interviews and some green screening. The low light recipe sounds good for low light situations that I have no control over. Is there any advantage to using cine gamma settings in camera? I am looking for some suggestions from real world experiences and what not to fall prey too. Thanks!

Alex Humphrey · April 19th, 2009, 07:44 PM

24p is best for NTSC DVD, and good for PAL DVD and works just fine with broadcast (60p/60i). If you think about it, we watch movies all the time shot in 24p. 30p is not a good choice for NTSC/PAL DVD's but fine for broadcast.

Color profiles: check out and test the different profiles listed at the top of this forum. However if you need a starting baseline, start with cinema Gama and even think about cinema color matrix. It's a good starter profile, especially after you broadcast or go to DVD. Going far off on your own and it can make problems with color spectrum being over saturated or ugly color curves in the final DVD.

If you are willing to color correct in post you can get really nice results. I'm not willing to, but if you do, you can squeeze out another stop or two of exposure. Lowering contrast in camera to bring it back scene by scene in post.

Cinegama basically helps keeps your highlights tamed a little better without dropping your exposure. Also play with your knee settings. Somewhat effective. Manual 80%. I use Cinegama for everything, and generally cinecolor matrix with a gain of +2 color, or with standard color with cinegama on. Depends upon the subject matter.

Tom Koveleskie · April 20th, 2009, 09:35 AM

Thanks for the tips Alex. I have been following many threads and have been trying to come up with the best settings. Do you think the color is more vibrant at a +2 setting? Does this push the color level over the legal limit for broadcast? I did have to calibrate the colors gain to get a life like reproduction. I started with the "True Color" recipe, but found the red was way to overpowering. I actually had to set the red gain to -2. I put up a color chart and set the camera gains to match the colors on my monitor, to what I was seeing on the chart with my own eyes. I would like to end up with nice deep color saturation and good deep blacks with my documentary footage.

Alex Humphrey · April 20th, 2009, 04:37 PM

Well I only use the +2 gain for color when using CineGama & CineColor matrix combined... and really only just to punch things up a little for DVD. As far as legal, I don't broadcast these days, so I don't care, but I bet it's fine. +2 with Cinegama & Standard Color might cause some issues with reds. But someone else who deals with broadcasting more than me these days would be a better choice to ask.

Now if you want to see something GARISH.. check out Art Wolfe's photography program on PBS. Shot with Canon HDV and I swear I've never seen any program with the color that hot. I'm surprised that's not over the limit.

Also, I virtually never color correct. So if you plan on it, then don't do any color gain. Do it in post.

Claude Mangold · April 21st, 2009, 09:04 AM

Tom, maybe you should be more specific.
Settings for greenkeying, low light takes and well lit interviews vary widely, especially if you want a homogenous end result. search for these keywords in the GY-HD forum and you'll find lots of ready-to-use advice.
A crucial question is how much color correction you are willing/able to do.
Generally speaking, many of us apply Tim's and Paolo's settings and tweak them as necessary.
Another good rule is to keep the DETAIL setting to MIN and to avoid gain at all cost.
Plus, if you're using the standard lens, avoid the extremes of the zoom and check out the lens breathing before rack focusing.

Tom Koveleskie · April 22nd, 2009, 08:44 AM

Thanks Claude. I have been searching and soaking up the threads like a sponge! I am so far behind the curve. I used Tim's and Paolo's guides as a starting point and have come up with a color settings that are pretty close to exact real life color reproduction. I am storing the settings as scene files. I just wasn't sure about how and when to use, or not use the cinegama setting and color matrix. Its all starting to come together now. I did some test shots, and they are beautiful. The settings improved the factory out of the box look. I found that the red gain had to be turned down to -2 or else the picture had a reddish glow to it. Paolo's TC3 settings really made the red hot.

Some of the scenes for my doc will be under indoor controlled settings with light kits. I plan to use a a little Sanyo 19" HDTV monitor for focus and setting up the camera. It seems that even the low light scene setting is really noisy. I am worried about those run and gun uncontrolled lighting situations.

Some of the interviews and people fluff pieces will be green screen backgrounds. I have done keying with DV cameras in the past with decent success. I wanted to find out if their were any secrets to success with the HD110. I know it is 4:2:0 color space. I will be using Photoflex soft boxes for good even light.

April 16th, 2009, 02:30 PM	#1
Tom Koveleskie Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Wales, Pennsylvania Posts: 76	Newbie with HD110 - Documentary settings advice please. I have so many years of threads to go over that my head is swimming lol. I have been experimenting with the HD110 hooked up to my HD monitor. Trying different settings and scene recipes. I am trying to come up with the best settings for my upcoming doc. I have "Magic Bullet Looks Suite" and plan to do most processing in post production. Would shooting the camera flat in HDV default mode be the best bet? Also what frame rate would be the wisest choice for final delivery for possible cable/satellite broadcast and DVD. 24P? Am I right in thinking that progressive can be turned into interlace just by outputting as i from my NLE or transferring to an interlaced tape deck. Bottom line is I need to cover all the bases for possible release. I will be using plenty of light for people interviews and some green screening. The low light recipe sounds good for low light situations that I have no control over. Is there any advantage to using cine gamma settings in camera? I am looking for some suggestions from real world experiences and what not to fall prey too. Thanks! Last edited by Tom Koveleskie; April 16th, 2009 at 02:31 PM. Reason: puncuation

April 19th, 2009, 07:44 PM	#2
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	24p is best for NTSC DVD, and good for PAL DVD and works just fine with broadcast (60p/60i). If you think about it, we watch movies all the time shot in 24p. 30p is not a good choice for NTSC/PAL DVD's but fine for broadcast. Color profiles: check out and test the different profiles listed at the top of this forum. However if you need a starting baseline, start with cinema Gama and even think about cinema color matrix. It's a good starter profile, especially after you broadcast or go to DVD. Going far off on your own and it can make problems with color spectrum being over saturated or ugly color curves in the final DVD. If you are willing to color correct in post you can get really nice results. I'm not willing to, but if you do, you can squeeze out another stop or two of exposure. Lowering contrast in camera to bring it back scene by scene in post. Cinegama basically helps keeps your highlights tamed a little better without dropping your exposure. Also play with your knee settings. Somewhat effective. Manual 80%. I use Cinegama for everything, and generally cinecolor matrix with a gain of +2 color, or with standard color with cinegama on. Depends upon the subject matter.

April 20th, 2009, 09:35 AM	#3
Tom Koveleskie Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Wales, Pennsylvania Posts: 76	Thanks for the tips Alex. I have been following many threads and have been trying to come up with the best settings. Do you think the color is more vibrant at a +2 setting? Does this push the color level over the legal limit for broadcast? I did have to calibrate the colors gain to get a life like reproduction. I started with the "True Color" recipe, but found the red was way to overpowering. I actually had to set the red gain to -2. I put up a color chart and set the camera gains to match the colors on my monitor, to what I was seeing on the chart with my own eyes. I would like to end up with nice deep color saturation and good deep blacks with my documentary footage.

April 20th, 2009, 04:37 PM	#4
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	Well I only use the +2 gain for color when using CineGama & CineColor matrix combined... and really only just to punch things up a little for DVD. As far as legal, I don't broadcast these days, so I don't care, but I bet it's fine. +2 with Cinegama & Standard Color might cause some issues with reds. But someone else who deals with broadcasting more than me these days would be a better choice to ask. Now if you want to see something GARISH.. check out Art Wolfe's photography program on PBS. Shot with Canon HDV and I swear I've never seen any program with the color that hot. I'm surprised that's not over the limit. Also, I virtually never color correct. So if you plan on it, then don't do any color gain. Do it in post.

April 21st, 2009, 09:04 AM	#5
Claude Mangold Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Berlin and Geneva Posts: 259	Tom, maybe you should be more specific. Settings for greenkeying, low light takes and well lit interviews vary widely, especially if you want a homogenous end result. search for these keywords in the GY-HD forum and you'll find lots of ready-to-use advice. A crucial question is how much color correction you are willing/able to do. Generally speaking, many of us apply Tim's and Paolo's settings and tweak them as necessary. Another good rule is to keep the DETAIL setting to MIN and to avoid gain at all cost. Plus, if you're using the standard lens, avoid the extremes of the zoom and check out the lens breathing before rack focusing.

April 22nd, 2009, 08:44 AM	#6
Tom Koveleskie Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: North Wales, Pennsylvania Posts: 76	Thanks Claude. I have been searching and soaking up the threads like a sponge! I am so far behind the curve. I used Tim's and Paolo's guides as a starting point and have come up with a color settings that are pretty close to exact real life color reproduction. I am storing the settings as scene files. I just wasn't sure about how and when to use, or not use the cinegama setting and color matrix. Its all starting to come together now. I did some test shots, and they are beautiful. The settings improved the factory out of the box look. I found that the red gain had to be turned down to -2 or else the picture had a reddish glow to it. Paolo's TC3 settings really made the red hot. Some of the scenes for my doc will be under indoor controlled settings with light kits. I plan to use a a little Sanyo 19" HDTV monitor for focus and setting up the camera. It seems that even the low light scene setting is really noisy. I am worried about those run and gun uncontrolled lighting situations. Some of the interviews and people fluff pieces will be green screen backgrounds. I have done keying with DV cameras in the past with decent success. I wanted to find out if their were any secrets to success with the HD110. I know it is 4:2:0 color space. I will be using Photoflex soft boxes for good even light.