JVC GY-HD100u vs SONY HVR-V1 - advice on which to go for please.

[Sandy Tedford]

Hello!

I am badly in need of some advice on which to buy and of course I am on a budget!!!!! who isn't eh?

I need a good quality pogressive scan camera for a new casting studio - have built the inifity curve, have sound and lighting and my online casting secure website is in production and all i have to do is by the camera. Looked into many options and it boils down to this it think:

Here are my choices:

Brand new Sony HVR - V1 - £2375.00 incl VAT (cant find it any lower)
would have to buy 3 year warranty £99 and a wide angle conversion lens (.8) £279 on top.
Looked at 2nd hand options but all seem a little battered for my liking.


or

2nd Hand JVC GY HD100u - £1500 (from a good production company)
would have to buy wide angle conversion lens £200 approx on top

Although casting is the main use for the camera (therefore static and on a tripod) i would like to produce some more creative projects in the future so please don't think that ease of use is my main priority. I have worked with the JVC before (see link below) was nice but workflow for FCP was a pain as we shot of 720/24P. also there was a problem with the firewire ports as i recall and the playback.

if you are interested to see what we shot please see link,
but be warned if you are offended by swearing and bad language please don't watch. music trailer kicks in about half way through.

trailer

Can you let me know your thoughts and any advice you might have that might help me make this decision on which camera to buy.

I don't always work with the same camera operator - so if the JVC is too much of a camera for most please let me know........

thanks!!!!

sandy
x

[Jack Walker]

For use in a casting studio, I think a used HD100 would be a little unwieldy, be difficult for changing operators and would potentially have various problems (documented in the forums over the years) that would not be comfortable for the business (i.e. couldn't be quickly resolved and cause loss of work or impaired jobs).

The Sony V1 is fairly standard to operate for changing operators, is small and easy to setup, has auto features that can be judiciously used for setup that are not available on the JVC. The low light abilities of the V1 may not be enough for your needs, though this is probably not a concern.

In any case, for your use I think you should look at the solid state cameras.

The V1 records to hard disk, but is this included in your pricing? The HD100 also has an add-on hard disk capability, but is this included, and it brings more potential problems.

For your use the ideal camera might be the new solid state JVC GY-HM100. It records onto SDHC cards that can be instantly viewed or transfered or transcoded to another format to send to a client. It records natively to both *.mov and *.mp4 so it can deliver files good for whatever system you are using. It is small, but offers a number of recording formats. (It doesn't record SD, but it does have PAL and NTSC formats for HD.) For your creative projects, this camera offers 35 Mbit/s recording, as well as 60p to give you nice slow motion options. There are other potential creative choices available with other features, such as the LoLux mode, which by accumlation processing might give some very interesting video if creatively used.

Are you recording directly into a computer? If so, are you going to depend on firewire? or perhaps you are going to go into an add-on card with HDMI?

For your business, full of impatience and a low tolerance for missteps, I think the used HD100 is not the right camera. By buying a new camera, you could come out ahead if the business folds: it would resell better than a second resell on a used, out-of-date camera.

Are you recording HD (HDV) or SD? That could make a big difference in your choice -- though I would still stay away from the used HD100.

(If you are going to record to tape for casting, the Canon XH-A1 would be good. If you are recording to a computer for casting sessions and want a tape backup, the Canon would be a good option. I would get a used XH-A1 before I got a used HD100. If I remember correctly, the V1 would let you record to tape and hard disk at the same time -- and maybe out to a computer at the same time.)

[Sandy Tedford]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

For your business, full of impatience and a low tolerance for missteps, I think the used HD100 is not the right camera. By buying a new camera, you could come out ahead if the business folds: it would resell better than a second resell on a used, out-of-date camera.

you talk a LOT of sense and understand the casting industry well!!!. Thank you for the reply. It is absolutely what I needed to hear. I may want the creative flexibility that the HD100 offers but the "business" requires a simple, glitch free, multiple user with varying ability ease. The point about resell is very important too and very helpful. I hadn't thought about it but it makes a lot of sense.

I will be shooting on DV. The V1 does shoot onto tape I think if i am not reading the specs wrong.
Sony HVR - V1

I haven't had much use for cards or hard disks as yet - I record onto DVD's and Mini DV format on external machines and run a firewire into a Mac Tower for Quicktime pro capture. (The guy building my online site has requested the progressive scan) All of my clients now only work with these formats. we used to use U-Mat tapes but no need anymore. The tapes are sent directly onto clients (overseas via courier) immediately after our casting session so weight has become a deciding factor. We have no time for editing or downloading after the casting so everything has to be recorded in real time.

so we may have an answer spend the extra 1K - save myself a headache!

Now the only thing i am missing is a caption generator or titler........ the search continues.

thanks again! really helpful post.

sandy
x

[Sandy Tedford]

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

For your use the ideal camera might be the new solid state JVC GY-HM100. It records onto SDHC cards that can be instantly viewed or transfered or transcoded to another format to send to a client. It records natively to both *.mov and *.mp4 so it can deliver files good for whatever system you are using. It is small, but offers a number of recording formats. (It doesn't record SD, but it does have PAL and NTSC formats for HD.) For your creative projects, this camera offers 35 Mbit/s recording, as well as 60p to give you nice slow motion options. There are other potential creative choices available with other features, such as the LoLux mode, which by accumlation processing might give some very interesting video if creatively used.

Is there anything obvious I should know about the JVC GY-HM100 vs Sony V1???
going to look into it now - would be nice to play with 60P......

and sorry to be ignorant but LoLux mode?????? : )

[Jack Walker]

The GY-HM100 (available the end of April) does not record in standard definition, only high definition.

The LoLux mode, discussed in the HM100 and HM700 threads in the area, is a feature whereby light is gathered from several frames to give accumlated exposure for low llight recording with reduced noise. There may be streaing or blurring on moving subjects. However, no one knows, because no one has seen video yet recorded in this mode.

You say you will be shooting DV, and the JVC HM100 does not shoot DV.

However, you also say you will be shooting progressive, but the Sony V1 shoots interlaced DV. The progressive options are only available in HDV.

Since I don't use the V1 (is this a PAL camera or an NTSC camera, the V1U) and the HM100 is not yet out, and I don't know what players your clients are using for the tapes, I don't know exactly what you need.

The new HM100 does not have tape. However, if you are recording to a computer and making a DVD, that doesn't matter.

The HM100 does not record DV, but you can record HDV and transcode for a DVD for progressive SD output.

[Jack Walker]

Here is the JVC brochure for the GY-HM100:
http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/CA...00_kcs8409.pdf

In this thread is a disussion covering LoLux mode thoughts:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...-hm-700-a.html
Read the 4th post (by Steve Mullen)

Here are two more HM100 threads:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...-gy-hm100.html
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...tage-when.html

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Sandy Tedford

going to look into it now - would be nice to play with 60P......

Further to the great advice Jack is giving you, I work exclusively in 720P60 and my downconverts to DVD look REALLY nice, especially with the 60P interlacing well to 60i. Be aware though that 720P to DVD compliant MPEG-2 is NOT a quick conversion if doing it well so transcoding adds an extra step AND a significant amount of time (I do 2-pass VBR; one pass CBR may be faster).

[Alex Humphrey]

well part of the problem is JVC is using the same numbersing system, but HM vs HD for the 100's.

The HM100's will have no problems with FCP, the HD100's were/are susecptable to timecode breaks, (mostly due to apple is the biggest rumor). This is solved with a FE-DTE for an additional $1,200 with mount. So do NOT confuse JVC HD-100's with JVC HM-100's different beasts completely.

Since most of your casting will be on film or 24p digital I would guess you would do most of your work in 24p as well. Going 60p HDV to 60i or 24p in DVD is time consuming, it's half as long if you shoot 24p HDV however, so keep that in mind.

I would say look into the JVC HM100 as being your best method and buy bulk SDHC cards.
2nd best choice to stick with real 24p and keeps you in the tape world and rock solid would be an Panasonic DVX100b.

For the money I would still opt for the JVC HM100 since it embraces the future, but if you find a deal on the Panasonic DVX100b's that would be a valid but shorter lifespan method (standard definition 4:3, but it is nice and 24p) You would also still have to capture realtime, while the JVC load into your laptop with a cheap $20 USB to SDHC adapter or firewire or USB or a PCICMA card and have 1/4 to 1/10th transfer times.

Also, if you were to do most of your daily work in SD 24p, you can pick up a ton of JVC HD100/110's CHEAP and shoot 24p SD 16:9 on tape and look better than Panasonic DVX100b's. When you want to go HD with FCP you will want a FE-DTE drive or maybe FCP in April will fix their error detection.

[Jack Walker]

It's not clear to me whether you want a PAL or NTSC camera, or if you want a camera that shoots both.

It's also not clear if you need to shoot directly in progressive standard definition and HD (HDV) for your other projects, or whether or not you will do all your shooting in standard definition (PAL 25p or NTSC? 24p or 30p).

The exact workflow for your clients needs to be specified to make the best camera choice.

If you are delivering a DV or HDV tape, the client has to be able to play it, and unless it is the most standard DV, there can be problems.

If you are delivering in DVD, the video has to be transcoded no matter what format you use, but any camera could be used -- and varying amounts of time and expertise are needed for the process (not to mention there are software considerations and possibly expense).

Another option is to record directly into the computer through a transcoder of some time that gives you files that are immediately accessible for transfer to DVD.

For the web, any of the progressive modes are usable (24p, 25p, 20p, 24PsF, 24F, 25P, etc. etc.) as s the video can be easily processed to whatever progressive format you are using (be it Flash, etc).

I think what needs to be specified is you exact "speed" workflow and viewing situations, then the right camera for that can be adapted to other uses.

I like the new JVC GY-HM100 since it shoots a variety (PAL and NTSC) modes, but it does not have SD.

Finally, are you looking for a 4:3 or 16:9 frame for your "speed" work.

[Robert Morane]

Get yourself a used Canon A1 or Sony HDV, there is several around.
It will be good for your budget.
Easy to operate, yet offering great potential for artistic sophistication if needed,
work SD and HD
work 4.3 and 16.9
cheap cost of tape ( and proven reliability)
can be easily edited on almost every platform from Imovie to Avid, PC or Mac
will still keep a resale value for some years to come
you can add a firestore or the Sony CF card recorder if needed,
but most of all it is available now and there is plenty of support and ressources accessible.
Good Luck

[Sandy Tedford]

Yes I think you are right the SONY HDV is the way forward for this business at this time.

I hope to expand to a second studio soon and may have room to "play" more with the choice of camera then. But as of now I am going to stick with the safest / most reliable and simple option is the way forward.

We record in SD most of the time and as stated have feeds that record onto a JVC Mini DV deck and DVD recorders as we film. We have a direct feed from the camera to a Mac tower which captures directly onto Quicktime pro with a programmed site for upload onto an FTP site.

We record in PAL as standard but occasionally have to cater for the NTSC market when casting project for American Production companies.

We normally do not have to edit our footage but when we do we will use FCP and create DVD or Quicktime formats.

Thank you for all your advice you have helped me a lot in making this choice.

Sandy
x

...... getting there slowly