Higher bit rate for JVC HD200u

[Jason McCormy]

I have read in a few of the posts on the board how badly the compression artifacts and other problems are with the JVC HD200u when shooting in either 720p60 or 720p50. I've also heard mention to avoid these problems by shooting in something other than the MPG1 transport onto tape or the little harddrive recorder.

How does one do that? I'm really interested.

[Shaun Roemich]

Analog component out to an IO solution that can capture less lossy video in real time to a laptop or field computer.

[Jason McCormy]

So a long component cable out to a laptop. What kind of IO solution is reasonably priced for a laptop?

[Alex Humphrey]

an AJA IO would be a choice. I saw the pre-production model at a JVC HD seminar a couple years ago.

AJA Video - Serial Digital Video Interface and Conversion

It looks great except that it requires power and is fairly large and expensive. But a serious choice to go between your uncompressed HD component video and your laptop/tower/RAID drives. I shrugged my shoulds when I ran the math and thought it would make more sense getting a Panasonic HPX-500 and some P2 cards and have more freedom of movement.

[Jason McCormy]

Boy, more and more I think I was pretty foolish to suggest to my boss that we go with the JVC. I really liked that it shot 720p60, but it apparently doesn't do that well. Actually, it seems it doesn't do much well in comparison with the Sony's.

[Justin Ferar]

It really depends on what you are shooting...

I've watched Little People, Big World in HD (shot exclusively with HD200 and 250's) and I think the image quality is really good there. Looking at the show I'm pretty sure they are shooting 30p.

If you are going to go out and shoot sports (race cars, water sports, rodeo) then the 60p will kill you.

Bottom line the camera is very good for ENG stuff and reality TV. Particularly because of it's form factor and lenses. To me- the ergonomics trump a slight compromise in image. Some of us just refuse to do run and gun with fixed pseudo lens camcorders. I WON"T DO I TELL YA!

J.

[Jason McCormy]

That maybe, but it seems that the actual image capture of the JVC is trouble. Or, is that only with the 60p option?

I wish there was some sort of flash option to do a constant backup with. The harddive module seems to be trouble from what people say.

[Alex Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Jason McCormy

Boy, more and more I think I was pretty foolish to suggest to my boss that we go with the JVC. I really liked that it shot 720p60, but it apparently doesn't do that well. Actually, it seems it doesn't do much well in comparison with the Sony's.

Well I would say Sony doesn't really do anything well under their XD-Cam or HD-Cam. Others here would say don't bother anything under CinAlta. So always remember who you are talking too and where their head is at.

Me for instance, my head is only 24p or nothing. And there is nothing in the market that I consider usable under $8,000 but a JVC, (panasonic HVX-200 is good, but lots of P2 cards per hour that for me adds up to over $10,000 quickly). Others that work in in 1080i broadcast will have a completly different take. They will choose Sony XD-Cam, HD-Cam or DVCPRO-HD or if they can afford the rental then the CineAlta (sweeeeet)...

So while I may bitch and wine about JVC, I wouldn't for a minute consider a sony HDV for work nor the Canon HDV either, (though Canon seems to get better results than Sony and both are swell for college students and hobbyists for 24p aquisition. I'm not saying they are bad, I just think the 2x - 4x render times and down conversions adds nothing to the final image except time wasted where I watch my hourly income drop by 50%) Again if you needed 60i and not 24p, then the Canon and Sony's are fine cameras, though not generally allowed as main camera for broadcast TV. If your not selling to networks but weddings and such, then don't worry about it.

I think the only decent 60p format in the same market price comparison is the DVCPROHD HVX-200 or better yet the HPX-500, but you need a Focus Enhancements DTE drive or a bunch of P2 Cards to shoot any length of time with it. To be fair to JVC I don't have the 200/250 camera so I can't speak on it's 60p aquisition at all. However, if you watch NFL on an HD channel, you are starting to see 2 $80,000 Sony cams and 3 or 4 JVC HD200/250's with microwave senders. Sony $80k cameras are the A cameras and the JVC's are the B mobile cameras.... You can see a difference, but it's not always earth shattering to the viewer, (assuming the camerperson has it in focus). Scripts (owns various NBC and I think a few ABC or CBS stations as well as non network stations) just purchased several months ago ANOTHER 1,000 JVC HD200u's with the $10,000 18x Fujinon lens.

To be honest, if I had a $80,000 CineAlta, I would be here complaining how it still doesn't have the resolution or latitude of 35mm film in a Panaflex, and yes, if I had a Panflex I would be complaining that it still doesn't compare with the 60mm/70mm film cameras....... SOOOOO.... take all criticism from all users with a grain of salt. We tend (myself included) convince ourself we made the right decisions about the $6,000 to $15,000 we spent on electronics instead of a new car.

[Alex Humphrey]

Oh, and before my coffee buzz wears out... There is a new JVC/Sony/FE DTE unit coming outearly next year that mounts on the tail end of the JVC HD200u ONLY and bypasses the JVC's encoder and can encode in Sony XD-Cam format in 1080i/p 720p 24p/30p/60p. Sooooo maybe a REAL choice for you is the JVC HD200u with the upcoming Sony/JVC/FocusEnhancments DTE drive early 2009. Otherwise I would say go for a HVX200/HPX-500 and several thousand dollars in P2 and DTE drives.... if you truely needed 60p that is.

[Jason McCormy]

Alex,

Thank you very much for your post. You have cheered me up greatly. My boss does not film, other than for a goof around bit, so when he told me I could use the camera just research it and pick one, I jumped at the chance and chose the JVC. Since then, all I seem to read is how deficient it is at one thing or another and the end result is I spend time wondering if I really wasted this opportunity. So far, I've only had one real problem with it ( a tape that has so many dropouts it totally ruined a once in a life time shoot), but that problem is starting to really phase me. Now, my boss is sending me on some shoots to act as a b roll camera man and I'm just really stressed I picked the wrong thing. Perhaps I didn't.

I am looking forward to this new attachment. I will buy it for sure when it comes out. Do you know if it plugs into the fire wire port? I hate that firewire port. It isn't very secure and I read all the reports of 2 thousand dollar repair jobs for it.

[Justin Ferar]

Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey

Oh, and before my coffee buzz wears out... There is a new JVC/Sony/FE DTE unit coming outearly next year that mounts on the tail end of the JVC HD200u ONLY and bypasses the JVC's encoder and can encode in Sony XD-Cam format in 1080i/p 720p 24p/30p/60p. Sooooo maybe a REAL choice for you is the JVC HD200u with the upcoming Sony/JVC/FocusEnhancments DTE drive early 2009. Otherwise I would say go for a HVX200/HPX-500 and several thousand dollars in P2 and DTE drives.... if you truely needed 60p that is.

Bypasses the encoder? Are you sure about that? I can see that on the HD250 because it has SDI but on a HD200 too?

Is there any more info on this available?

[Alex Humphrey]

JVC Professional Features page

[Justin Ferar]

I'm a little confused. It's Sony XDCAM EX MPEG-2 but the file will be .mp4 which I guess means MPEG-2 wrapped in and MPEG-4 container.

So it sounds to me like it is basically JVC's HDV MPEG-2 (the same that we shoot on tape) packaged up into .mp4.

Also the unit appears to only work with the 200UB and the HD250 which sucks for me because I have a 200U.

[Alex Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

Bypasses the encoder? Are you sure about that? I can see that on the HD250 because it has SDI but on a HD200 too?

Is there any more info on this available?

That is what I was told (month ago?????)

I just emailed the west coast JVC sales rep and we will see what they say, and I'll obviously pass it along.

I'm closely reading the JVC's site about the 200b model and i'm thinking that it's AFTER the encoder via firewire... so it's making it compatible for other editing platforms, but i'm not sticking my foot farther down my throat at the moment.

[Adam Letch]

that you only use one brand, and depending on what your shooting for, get the best of that brand, I use the JVC HDPro tapes and have never had a hit. I also use the DRDH100 and it's only had a handful of hits over a space of a year, and under very strenuous shooting conditions.
Don't get hung up on 50/60p. Its great for slow mo and maybe if you intend on becoming a National Geo wildlife specialist.
I believe if you go firewire out you can't bypass the codec as Justin has said, unless somehow in the latest incarnation they've found a way of bypassing the encoder? The reason I but the HD250 was so this could be done and then you can record at a lot higher quality. Hopefully the XDR will mature enough soon for general use, at the moment it shoots Quicktime at 50/100mbps, which is almost as good as uncompressed, mxf is only a moment away, and then shooting 720 50/60p will be a dream on this camera, it'll make it a weapon equal to camera's 3 times its cost, of course you'd still have the 1/3 latitude difference, and if they are attached to a XDR its the same deal, but still heaps cheaper.
I shoot motox, horses out of cars and helicopter and 25p does me for most things!

good luck

adam