HD200 and Primes - Help Me Understand, please.

[Tim Dashwood]

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

So, as an update, my new JVC PL mount adaptor will be on it's way to me next week.
Thanks for all the help, folks! Especially Tim.

I'm glad I could help. It sounds like you got a great deal.
May I suggest you get a UK UltraBox 408 for the adapter. It doesn't come with foam like a pelican case but it is a lot cheaper.

I'm prepping for another music video with my HZ-CA13U tomorrow.

[Shaun Roemich]

Tim: I'm pretty thrilled and thanks for putting the bug in Pete's ear.

I you happen to hear of any reasonably prices (think "cheap"... <laughs>) primes or short zooms coming available that you can vouch for, please keep me in mind.

It's interesting you mention a UK Case: I bought one years ago for my road switcher (UK model 822) and I've had nothing but issues with the hardware and handles. One of the side handles has come loose (bad rivet) and 3 of the locking knobs have failed. Obviously you've had better luck with yours.

[Brian Luce]

You can also learn to live with the DOF provided natively. Not too bad. No 35mm spoken here:

[Stuart Campbell]

This is an excellent point Brian.

Given the right lighting, subject matter and technical ability you can create the look of 35mm with any TV lens.

General rules of thumb include things like using a wider aperture and shooting towards the end of the zoom. Always, when using techniques such as this look to keep your shots still and concentrate on framing rather than any fancy moves!

We've shot a couple of bits in the past where people would have sworn it was shot with an adapter.

However, that said, it's not always possible to shoot using such methods!

[Claude Mangold]

A little jewel from Ireland shot with Sony HDV, shows both how unimportant and important the 35mm dof is:

unimportant because story and characters are at the center of a film, not equipement - here the film triumphs

important because dof and other image aspects can convey so much additional subtext, and I sorely missed all this additional richness of expression in the film.

Nevertheless, "Once" shows again that "art" goes before equipment.

"Once" won an Oscar for the score/songs. Imdb: Once (2006)

[Shaun Roemich]

Another update: The adaptor has arrived! Should be able to get down to our motion picture house next week to throw some primes and zooms on it. I'm pretty excited!

One thing I'm pleasantly surprised about is the heft of this thing. Significantly heavier than I thought and it seems to be incredibly well built.

For those of you who have already used it, any suggestions as I get ready to go in and try lenses? Should I limit my experimentation to 16mm lenses or should I check out 35mm's as well? Is there a significant quality difference between Century, Cooke, Zeiss and Angenieux lenses, either in primes or zooms? Has anyone tried the Canon PL mount digi-cinema lenses?

[Shaun Roemich]

Yet another update:
Finally tried out 16mm and 35mm PL mount lenses on the JVC PL adaptor today. WOW. Everything I shot was just charts and my partner standing in front of them for DOF/FOV comparisons but what really surprised me is how bright everything was. I was expecting to lose a stop or two but I would suggest I was gaining a stop or two versus the stock 16x. The lenses weren't ridiculously fast either. Yes, they were primes and I'm sure that helps but absolute night and day performance. In light that I would normally agonize over gaining up to +3 or +6, I was shooting T8 or T5,6. In fact, I was able to dial in 1/4ND with the faster lenses to get even more shallow DOF. I cannot recommend this solution highly enough to anyone on the fence.

[Tim Dashwood]

Yes you gain light, it's a law of physics (and optics) that "something's gotta give" when you optically change the size of the image. In the case of the HZ-CA13U it is taking an aerial image the size of 16mm frame and shrinking it to half of that size (1/3" CCD.) If you shrink it down that much the optical invariant says it has to be two stops brighter to balance. Full explanation here and here.
Of course there is about 1/2 of a stop of light-loss due to diffraction and travel through the numerous optical elements, but the net gain is 1 and 1/2 stops of illumination.

Of course the optical invariant reveals a disadvantage as well. Since the maximum opening on the camera port is considered F/1.4, the optical invariant says that the maximum aperture on the entry side must be two stops smaller at F/2.8. This means that even if you are using high-speed primes that can open to T1.3 there is no depth of field or illumination advantage in opening past T2.8.

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

This means that even if you are using high-speed primes that can open to T1.3 there is no depth of field or illumination advantage in opening past T2.8.

And that would explain the lack of frame brightening during the first bit of iris on the T1.6 prime I tried. PS Prairies were absolutely fantastic and let me spend some quality time with S16 and 35mm lenses and explained when I would need 15mm rails for more sophisticated mounting, such as an Angenieux zoom or a ciné style follow focus.

Thanks again for everything Tim. Quick question: Where does one consider the focal plane to be for measuring focal distance (primarily so I can accurately set up back focus on the adaptor but also for more critical focus)? Coming from still photography, I looked for the circled-line but it does not exist on the adaptor.