My HD 250's look terrible live in one location at DVinfo.net

Chuck Pullen · November 10th, 2008, 06:21 PM

Hello all, I now am the proud owner of 2 250's that I use every Sunday along with a Sony and a Canon to shoot a church television show. They look great everywhere I use them except for on Sundays. This particular church is an old office building with a low ceiling, so the lighting is a little rough. I just got them to invest in kw/2 single bank fluorescents which are sprinkled around the stage and the walkway in front it, where the Pastor does his teaching. There are also a few pars with clear gels, and because of the configuration of the lighting we have to leave the regular fluorescents on as well.

I have tried Paolo’s recipes and a few others, but no matter what I use, the JVC’s look terrible live on the in house IMAG. The strange thing is that the SONY DSR looks AMAZING and no matter what I do, I can’t get the same look out of the JVC’s. I know the lighting isn’t the best, and there isn’t much I can do about that, anyone have any ideas that I might be able to try to get a good look out of these JVC’s?

Daniel Epstein · November 10th, 2008, 08:16 PM

Chuck,
You will have to define what is good about the Sony and what is bad about the JVC and try and make the JVC respond more like the Sony. Is it exposure? Pedestal or Master black level, Contrast, noise, White Balance, Color? All of these can be adjusted although you might find you cannot equal the Sony without out sacrificing some other aspect of the JVC's picture. Hi Def cameras are usually slower by a stop than the equivalent SD camera. If the Sony has a 2/3 inch sensor than it will have about a 2 stop advantage over the JVC. Without enough light the JVC will not have proper contrast or saturation. If there is enough light for the JVC than other controls should get you closer to the Sony. HTH

Adam Letch · November 10th, 2008, 11:31 PM

you feeding the camera back to your mixer, are you using the HDSDI output, or the component out, or even firewire?
I run our church video team with HD101's, we run component out back to our panasonic MX700 mixer(I think that was the model anyway), our image is fine. But we use to use older 1/2 SD 4:3 cams like the panasonic DV2000. And the image is so much cleaner as the sensitivity of the chip is superior to the JVC, in a studio environment these camera's need lots of light, we probably run about 30 par cans at least, and some profiles as well, as well as having the back wall covered in LED's which I don't recommend to anyone because they strobe, and you have to drop to 1/12.5 sec shutter to get rid of it. But we still need heaps more lighting to cover everything well.
You may need to decide what is best for your productions, if you broadcast SD, it may pay to get some good SD cams instead, but if you think it's fixable, the HD250's are great camera's and are quite flexible in their application. Are you shooting 24p? That will give you an extra 1/2 stop or so over interlaced 48i or whatever it is that NTSC runs at (sorry PAL boy)
this is our streamed service shot PAL 50i SD 4:3
http://myinternetchurch.com/casual-index.php

Good Luck

regards

Adam

Chuck Pullen · November 11th, 2008, 07:20 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the responses...Daniel, I purchased a DSC chart and someday when I have the access, I plan on trying to get the JVC closer to the SONY in the sanctuary. I also purchased Tim’s video and hopefully he’ll have some tricks and tips which may help me along. I keep thinking that there is enough light, and if there isn’t, well there is much more I can do about it at this point…Adam thanks for the link, and yes I agree that the ½ cameras do produce a better picture live than the JVC will. I am hoping that once I get one or two more widescreen and/or high def cameras, I will make the switch and start the migration to HD, 24 frame, and/or 16 x 9. The church is in the process of building a new sanctuary which should give more flexibility with lighting, as well as the possibility of going live HD or using SDI or something to that effect.

Again thanks for the input guys, I’m hoping Tim’s video might give me some new insight.

P.S. Does anyone feel it’s worthwhile to invest in the handheld “paint box” for the 250’s?

Marc Colemont · November 13th, 2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Letch

... as well as having the back wall covered in LED's which I don't recommend to anyone because they strobe, and you have to drop to 1/12.5 sec shutter to get rid of it.

What kind of LED devices are you using? Dimming them directly without electronics?
As professional LED fixtures will work perfectly on camera.
Personally I use the Martin StageBar 54 which uses a DMX-512 input from the light-console.
The Stagebar 54™ Resource Page
It's been used a lot for TV and staging applications. I can go upto 1/500th before I see flikkering.

November 10th, 2008, 06:21 PM	#1
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	My HD 250's look terrible live in one location Hello all, I now am the proud owner of 2 250's that I use every Sunday along with a Sony and a Canon to shoot a church television show. They look great everywhere I use them except for on Sundays. This particular church is an old office building with a low ceiling, so the lighting is a little rough. I just got them to invest in kw/2 single bank fluorescents which are sprinkled around the stage and the walkway in front it, where the Pastor does his teaching. There are also a few pars with clear gels, and because of the configuration of the lighting we have to leave the regular fluorescents on as well. I have tried Paolo’s recipes and a few others, but no matter what I use, the JVC’s look terrible live on the in house IMAG. The strange thing is that the SONY DSR looks AMAZING and no matter what I do, I can’t get the same look out of the JVC’s. I know the lighting isn’t the best, and there isn’t much I can do about that, anyone have any ideas that I might be able to try to get a good look out of these JVC’s?

November 10th, 2008, 11:31 PM	#3
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	also how are you feeding the camera back to your mixer, are you using the HDSDI output, or the component out, or even firewire? I run our church video team with HD101's, we run component out back to our panasonic MX700 mixer(I think that was the model anyway), our image is fine. But we use to use older 1/2 SD 4:3 cams like the panasonic DV2000. And the image is so much cleaner as the sensitivity of the chip is superior to the JVC, in a studio environment these camera's need lots of light, we probably run about 30 par cans at least, and some profiles as well, as well as having the back wall covered in LED's which I don't recommend to anyone because they strobe, and you have to drop to 1/12.5 sec shutter to get rid of it. But we still need heaps more lighting to cover everything well. You may need to decide what is best for your productions, if you broadcast SD, it may pay to get some good SD cams instead, but if you think it's fixable, the HD250's are great camera's and are quite flexible in their application. Are you shooting 24p? That will give you an extra 1/2 stop or so over interlaced 48i or whatever it is that NTSC runs at (sorry PAL boy) this is our streamed service shot PAL 50i SD 4:3 http://myinternetchurch.com/casual-index.php Good Luck regards Adam

November 10th, 2008, 08:16 PM	#2
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Chuck, You will have to define what is good about the Sony and what is bad about the JVC and try and make the JVC respond more like the Sony. Is it exposure? Pedestal or Master black level, Contrast, noise, White Balance, Color? All of these can be adjusted although you might find you cannot equal the Sony without out sacrificing some other aspect of the JVC's picture. Hi Def cameras are usually slower by a stop than the equivalent SD camera. If the Sony has a 2/3 inch sensor than it will have about a 2 stop advantage over the JVC. Without enough light the JVC will not have proper contrast or saturation. If there is enough light for the JVC than other controls should get you closer to the Sony. HTH

November 11th, 2008, 07:20 PM	#4
Chuck Pullen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 61	Hey guys, thanks for the responses...Daniel, I purchased a DSC chart and someday when I have the access, I plan on trying to get the JVC closer to the SONY in the sanctuary. I also purchased Tim’s video and hopefully he’ll have some tricks and tips which may help me along. I keep thinking that there is enough light, and if there isn’t, well there is much more I can do about it at this point…Adam thanks for the link, and yes I agree that the ½ cameras do produce a better picture live than the JVC will. I am hoping that once I get one or two more widescreen and/or high def cameras, I will make the switch and start the migration to HD, 24 frame, and/or 16 x 9. The church is in the process of building a new sanctuary which should give more flexibility with lighting, as well as the possibility of going live HD or using SDI or something to that effect. Again thanks for the input guys, I’m hoping Tim’s video might give me some new insight. P.S. Does anyone feel it’s worthwhile to invest in the handheld “paint box” for the 250’s?