A Please Help Request. at DVinfo.net

Bob Hart · November 4th, 2008, 09:23 AM

I am assisting with a multicamera shoot of a live musical event which will include two REDs, one SI2K and two JVC GY-HD111 cameras.

Does anyone have any scene file recipes or suggestions for the JVCs which would better emulate the broader latitude of the UltraHD cameras and assist in post production and grading.

It is likely the assembly and edit will be done on Mac under Final Cut Pro.

The JVCs will record to tape which is unavoidably m2t but also to DR-100 which offers quicktime compatable files which may be usable by Final Cut Pro without giving it a gutsache.

Any advice will be appreciated. My legitimate experience with the JVCs is probably little more than having shed my dandruff on the upper surfaces whilst watching others operate them though I have operated the camera myself.

Adam Letch · November 4th, 2008, 11:15 PM

I would think Paolo's TC3 or Tims Wide - Latitude would be the way to go.

regards

Adam

Bob Hart · November 5th, 2008, 05:46 AM

Thanks Adam.

I think they are going with TC3.

Dennis Robinson · November 5th, 2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Hart

Thanks Adam.

I think they are going with TC3.

Good luck Bob. My 111 blows me away now i have the 13x3.5 wide Fujinon. Amazing difference.

Marc Colemont · November 5th, 2008, 10:13 AM

Does it gives you that more light with the 13x3.5 wide Fujinon?

Alex Humphrey · November 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM

since I'm in the middle of editing a live music peformance in 3 different format hell of my own......, might I suggest shooting all the cameras at factory default (adjust edge enhancment is OK) and just plan on color correction later at one fell swoop...(running each camera on a different line in the NLE so it's easier to color correct).

My adjusted cameras started working against me in the shadows when the gain was ever adjusted. If I had NOT done any special black (-1) adjustment etc or even black stretch, I think my footage would have come out far better.. then just color correct later.

In my case data wasn't just changed, it was lost.

Phil Balsdon · November 8th, 2008, 03:24 PM

You might want to get all cameras to shoot something like a Kodak Grey Card Plus in the same lighting prior to event. This will give you a good but simple reference for colour balancing / grading in post.

I agree with Alex, shoot with all cameras in default and grade in post.

Adam Letch · November 9th, 2008, 05:59 PM

Yes further to Phil, and I'm sure you already do Bob with your experience, but using something like a DSC colour chart, at least a camette should help the matching process and giving correct colour

Camette

or if budget allows something like this

SlateMate

Bob Hart · November 9th, 2008, 08:20 PM

There will be a DSC colour chart shot.

My recommendation has been all cameras to be initially set up in turn on the same position close to front of the stage, same shot of the chart and whilst there, all whitebalanced to the subject point, then dragged away to their respective positions.

The stage is set up in centre of one end of a quad surrounded by the four wings of the building.

Theatre spot lighting has been installed in equal doses under the eaves of veranders down either side. My sense is a common viewpoint for white balance for all cameras rather than tailoring for the angles of each may be best for consistency across all the camera types.

I think they have managed to talk the organisers out of coloured lighting onto the performers and instead painting the backdrop, a fine old two story limestone building with coloured lighting instead.

Thank you all for your interest and recommendations. If you see a huge mistake lingering among the lines of my comments above, please let me know.

Dennis Robinson · November 12th, 2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colemont

Does it gives you that more light with the 13x3.5 wide Fujinon?

Yes Marc,
The difference is amazing in low light. I was really upset when i compared the JVC with stock lens with the EX1. Now there would be little difference with the 13x lens. Certainly worth the money.

Adam Letch · November 12th, 2008, 05:40 PM

don't be such a teaser, I don't have $10k free to buy one right now! I know serious glass would really top this camera off, combined with something like a flash XDR would be like scary capable. Though having said that, Scarlet will probably make us all rethink, effective on tomorrows press release on how we want to spend our next wad of cash!

Must resist GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome)

cheers

Adam

Steve Oakley · November 12th, 2008, 10:03 PM

no, the default settings are flat. you won't record the bits you need with the factory settings.

with the factory settings you'll get
1. less latitude overall
2. less color saturation and gradation
3. less shadow detail
4. less highlight detail
5. less light sensitivity

I;ve got my camera very tweaked out and it easily out performs the stock settings by a mile.
using TC3 is a good starting point. what you should do is actually tune _down_ the RED cams to match the JVC's. sounds crazy, but reducing their look will come closer to the JVC's. I know that might hurt a little, but since you can't get the jvc's past what they can do, you can reduce the RED's to less to meet in the middle. I'd even say shoot the RED's at 2K, not 4K. no point in 4K for the project.

November 4th, 2008, 09:23 AM	#1
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	A Please Help Request. I am assisting with a multicamera shoot of a live musical event which will include two REDs, one SI2K and two JVC GY-HD111 cameras. Does anyone have any scene file recipes or suggestions for the JVCs which would better emulate the broader latitude of the UltraHD cameras and assist in post production and grading. It is likely the assembly and edit will be done on Mac under Final Cut Pro. The JVCs will record to tape which is unavoidably m2t but also to DR-100 which offers quicktime compatable files which may be usable by Final Cut Pro without giving it a gutsache. Any advice will be appreciated. My legitimate experience with the JVCs is probably little more than having shed my dandruff on the upper surfaces whilst watching others operate them though I have operated the camera myself.

November 4th, 2008, 11:15 PM	#2
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Hey Bob I would think Paolo's TC3 or Tims Wide - Latitude would be the way to go. regards Adam

November 5th, 2008, 10:13 AM	#5
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Does it gives you that more light with the 13x3.5 wide Fujinon? __________________ Marc Colemont - Belgium - http://www.mc-productions.be JVC GY-HM850's, HM890, HM600

November 9th, 2008, 05:59 PM	#8
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Agree Yes further to Phil, and I'm sure you already do Bob with your experience, but using something like a DSC colour chart, at least a camette should help the matching process and giving correct colour Camette or if budget allows something like this SlateMate

November 9th, 2008, 08:20 PM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	There will be a DSC colour chart shot. My recommendation has been all cameras to be initially set up in turn on the same position close to front of the stage, same shot of the chart and whilst there, all whitebalanced to the subject point, then dragged away to their respective positions. The stage is set up in centre of one end of a quad surrounded by the four wings of the building. Theatre spot lighting has been installed in equal doses under the eaves of veranders down either side. My sense is a common viewpoint for white balance for all cameras rather than tailoring for the angles of each may be best for consistency across all the camera types. I think they have managed to talk the organisers out of coloured lighting onto the performers and instead painting the backdrop, a fine old two story limestone building with coloured lighting instead. Thank you all for your interest and recommendations. If you see a huge mistake lingering among the lines of my comments above, please let me know. Last edited by Bob Hart; November 9th, 2008 at 08:24 PM. Reason: error

November 5th, 2008, 05:46 AM	#3
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	Thanks Adam. I think they are going with TC3.

November 7th, 2008, 07:06 PM	#6
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	since I'm in the middle of editing a live music peformance in 3 different format hell of my own......, might I suggest shooting all the cameras at factory default (adjust edge enhancment is OK) and just plan on color correction later at one fell swoop...(running each camera on a different line in the NLE so it's easier to color correct). My adjusted cameras started working against me in the shadows when the gain was ever adjusted. If I had NOT done any special black (-1) adjustment etc or even black stretch, I think my footage would have come out far better.. then just color correct later. In my case data wasn't just changed, it was lost.

November 8th, 2008, 03:24 PM	#7
Phil Balsdon Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 91	You might want to get all cameras to shoot something like a Kodak Grey Card Plus in the same lighting prior to event. This will give you a good but simple reference for colour balancing / grading in post. I agree with Alex, shoot with all cameras in default and grade in post.

November 12th, 2008, 05:40 PM	#11
Adam Letch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 414	Now Dennis don't be such a teaser, I don't have $10k free to buy one right now! I know serious glass would really top this camera off, combined with something like a flash XDR would be like scary capable. Though having said that, Scarlet will probably make us all rethink, effective on tomorrows press release on how we want to spend our next wad of cash! Must resist GAS (Gear Aquisition Syndrome) cheers Adam

November 12th, 2008, 10:03 PM	#12
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	no, the default settings are flat. you won't record the bits you need with the factory settings. with the factory settings you'll get 1. less latitude overall 2. less color saturation and gradation 3. less shadow detail 4. less highlight detail 5. less light sensitivity I;ve got my camera very tweaked out and it easily out performs the stock settings by a mile. using TC3 is a good starting point. what you should do is actually tune _down_ the RED cams to match the JVC's. sounds crazy, but reducing their look will come closer to the JVC's. I know that might hurt a little, but since you can't get the jvc's past what they can do, you can reduce the RED's to less to meet in the middle. I'd even say shoot the RED's at 2K, not 4K. no point in 4K for the project.