Questions about good old 24p

Carlos Rodriguez · September 26th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I shot that with my 110, stock lens, nd off, shutterspeed at 1/2000. On a blu-ray disc when i pause the video I can look and count the individual droplets of water. It was cut on premiere CS3 the same day it was shot on an HP notebook special edition, as soon as we got off the boat. I saved the web compression and upload for when i got home. There was no suitable internet connection out there at the delta.

Johnnie Behiri · September 27th, 2008, 12:20 AM

Shooting 50p and editing on a 25p timeline gave me more flexibility and benefits during this project.

About Kata

Try and see the "hi res" version (buffering time might be long, and the "hi res" quality is limited. the original version looks gorgeous)!

This is a mixed footage of the JVC 251+ Panasonic HVX200.
JVC stock lens (with all its limitations)...
No color correction plug-ins were used.

Stuart Campbell · September 27th, 2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

50 is 2.5 times 24 which makes conversion between the two mathematically natural.
50 converts to 25 naturally.
Then it can be played at 24 with the sound slowed down 4%.
Specifics regarding any particular project are best discussed with the post house that will be used.

Jack,

I figured that 50 to 25 would be an obvious transition but is the 4 per cent difference the only consideration when moving to 24? and do you have to go from 50 to 25 then to 24? What would happen if I dropped 50 straight into a 24p project then?

The guys doing the roto work are happy with whatever frame rate they get so no probs there. I'm just concerned with potential edit problems if I want a 24p project and I've got 50p footage!

Maybe I'd better do some tests on Monday!!

Dan Parkes · September 27th, 2008, 06:08 AM

Hi Stuart

I agree with Johnnie's above post. Since your final delivery is ultimately DVD/web, I personally would keep your workflow at 50/25 and not even think about 24 at all until an actual filmout option comes up. I have shot several pieces at 24p (and 30/60) and I found in the long run the workflow and resultant speed changes etc were just not worth it, especially since the 'cinematic look' of 24p does not really exist. I have mentioned this before on the forum, but modern cinema projectors actually strobe each frame twice, or more, so that the apparent frame rate is faster to reduce flicker (the result being a perceived or effective frame rate 48fps +).

And by shooting at 50p you will then have some great slow motion options which by the sound of your subject material would look great.

Stuart Campbell · September 28th, 2008, 02:17 PM

Many thanks for that Dan,

I remember reading your thread on cinema projection. As to what system the Army have in their cinemas I can't say but we all had a chat over the weekend and are now going for 50p to keep all of our options open.

Jack..sorry for hijacking your thread.....but I think we both had the same question!

Shaun Roemich · September 28th, 2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Walker

50 is 2.5 times 24 which makes conversion between the two mathematically natural.

50 converts to 25 naturally.

Then it can be played at 24 with the sound slowed down 4%.

Specifics regarding any particular project are best discussed with the post house that will be used.

I think Jack meant to say 60 is 2.5 times 24, not 50.

Jack Walker · September 28th, 2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

I think Jack meant to say 60 is 2.5 times 24, not 50.

Yes, sorry, 50 is wrong...

It's 2.5 x 24 = 60... which makes conversions between 24 and 60 natural.

Trying to convert 30p into 24p is a problem. (But 30p can be used for slight slow motion with both 24p and 25p projects.)

With 50p you can drop every other frame leaving 25p, then play this back at 24p, with no interpolation and loss of quality. (Except the audio has to be slowed by 4%: 24/25=.96)

Jason McCormy · September 29th, 2008, 07:43 AM

Ahem, Ahem, actually, it was my thread....;)

And it has been very interesting.

Stuart Campbell · September 29th, 2008, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason McCormy

Ahem, Ahem, actually, it was my thread....;)

Sorry Jason.......that's what I meant to type! It's a stressful week culminating in a big shoot starting tomorrow!

Just spoken to my post house and they would (if they had the choice) rather have 50p but can take anything they get. He'll explain more once the shoot is over. Must get on and secure the camera platform on the back of our vehicle so it doesn't fall under a tank at speed!

September 27th, 2008, 06:08 AM	#19
Dan Parkes Regular Crew Join Date: May 2007 Location: Brighton, UK Posts: 154	Hi Stuart I agree with Johnnie's above post. Since your final delivery is ultimately DVD/web, I personally would keep your workflow at 50/25 and not even think about 24 at all until an actual filmout option comes up. I have shot several pieces at 24p (and 30/60) and I found in the long run the workflow and resultant speed changes etc were just not worth it, especially since the 'cinematic look' of 24p does not really exist. I have mentioned this before on the forum, but modern cinema projectors actually strobe each frame twice, or more, so that the apparent frame rate is faster to reduce flicker (the result being a perceived or effective frame rate 48fps +). And by shooting at 50p you will then have some great slow motion options which by the sound of your subject material would look great. __________________ Canon C300 Mk2 x 2, Rotolight Anova Pro and Neos, Ronin Gimbal, Phantom 4 Pro UAV www.danthecameraman.co.uk Last edited by Dan Parkes; September 27th, 2008 at 07:25 AM. Reason: formatting correction

September 26th, 2008, 07:02 PM	#16
Carlos Rodriguez Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Modesto, California Posts: 206	Thanks for the kind words. I shot that with my 110, stock lens, nd off, shutterspeed at 1/2000. On a blu-ray disc when i pause the video I can look and count the individual droplets of water. It was cut on premiere CS3 the same day it was shot on an HP notebook special edition, as soon as we got off the boat. I saved the web compression and upload for when i got home. There was no suitable internet connection out there at the delta.

September 27th, 2008, 12:20 AM	#17
Johnnie Behiri Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Vienna/Austria Posts: 187	Shooting 50p and editing on a 25p timeline gave me more flexibility and benefits during this project. About Kata Try and see the "hi res" version (buffering time might be long, and the "hi res" quality is limited. the original version looks gorgeous)! This is a mixed footage of the JVC 251+ Panasonic HVX200. JVC stock lens (with all its limitations)... No color correction plug-ins were used.

September 28th, 2008, 02:17 PM	#20
Stuart Campbell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hannover, Germany Posts: 400	Many thanks for that Dan, I remember reading your thread on cinema projection. As to what system the Army have in their cinemas I can't say but we all had a chat over the weekend and are now going for 50p to keep all of our options open. Jack..sorry for hijacking your thread.....but I think we both had the same question!

September 29th, 2008, 07:43 AM	#23
Jason McCormy Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Agoura California Posts: 268	Ahem, Ahem, actually, it was my thread....;) And it has been very interesting.