Is 720p still up to snuff? at DVinfo.net

Stefan Immler · September 12th, 2008, 06:11 PM

Hi all --

I am about to purchase my first HD camcorder for a documentary movie. I think the GY-HD100/200 camcorders might be great for me, but my partner raised the question if investing in a 720 camcorder makes sense in an age where virtually all other camcorders can record in 1080.

Would be interested to hear what you think about this.
Is 720 an outdated format/resolution?

Greg Boston · September 12th, 2008, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan Immler

Is 720 an outdated format/resolution?

Nope, not at all. ABC and FOX both deliver network programming in 720P. Sony has added 720 to the new high end XDCAM HD camera because those networks require it.

It would be nice to have a camera that does both formats but 720 is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

-gb-

Tim Dashwood · September 12th, 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

Nope, not at all. ABC and FOX both deliver network programming in 720P.

And don't forget ESPN! Fox owned networks (Fox News, FX, Sports, etc) are all 720p and Disney owned networks (ABC, ESPN, DisneyCh, etc) are all 720p.

Quote:

It would be nice to have a camera that does both formats but 720 is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

The HD200B in conjunction with the new KA-MR100 SxS recorder can record both 1080i and 720p into XDCAM format.

Alex Humphrey · September 15th, 2008, 11:28 AM

Oh and 720p 24fps is MUCH faster downconversion to DVD than 1080i or 108024f HDV. (DVC-PRO-HD 720p 24fps might be faster in down conversion rendering time though than HDV)

Ben Lynn · September 15th, 2008, 06:14 PM

Several years from now you may see a push for 1080p, but 720p and 1080i will last for at least the next ten years. Everyone just made the jump to HD and no one is in a hurry to change again. So definitely, 720p is a good investment.

I would however recommend the newer models so you have the option of 720p/60 and 1080i to a Firestore. I think that the added cost would be a good investment.

Stefan Immler · September 15th, 2008, 06:29 PM

Thank you all for your reply and thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Lynn

I would however recommend the newer models so you have the option of 720p/60 and 1080i to a Firestore. I think that the added cost would be a good investment.

I decided to get a JVC HD110 for documentary.

Ben Lynn · September 15th, 2008, 06:45 PM

Nice.

I made my recommendation because I shoot on a 100. I love the camera and 30p for anything I do that's a doc style. I couldn't ask for anything better (actually I could but I won't go there because overall it's a great camera). The hard part is when I'm doing a mixed camera event. For example, I may have a tennis training video later this year. It needs to be shot in 1080i so I can't use my own camera on the shoot : ( I sure wish I could because I love the control I have with the JVC. Even if it could shoot 60p I would use it.
So it's not that I'm unhappy with the camera, I just wish I had more format options so that I could use it more!

What lens and battery combo are you going to use with it?

Stefan Immler · September 15th, 2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Lynn

What lens and battery combo are you going to use with it?

Not sure yet. First I have to purchase the JVC and see how much money is left. I'll probably get AB batteries and a hd recording unit first. Then a Letus 35mm adapter with Nikon or Leica lenses. Then I need a matte box and a better shotgun mic. In that order ;-)

Steve Oakley · September 15th, 2008, 07:42 PM

720P up converts very nicely

for anyone at IBC this week, check out the Matrox booth where my 720P footage is playing on a 1080p screen. I did the MXO2 show loop :)

Giroud Francois · September 16th, 2008, 01:34 AM

unfortunately , all 720p camera are getting pretty old now, so the choice is more limited than with 1080. that would be probably the only reason why i would not recommend a 720p camera if your choice is going to these JVC models. (i would wait for the new models with SxS card)

Shaun Roemich · September 16th, 2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

720P up converts very nicely

for anyone at IBC this week, check out the Matrox booth where my 720P footage is playing on a 1080p screen. I did the MXO2 show loop :)

Nice! Congrats. That's GREAT exposure. Now if only I could attend to actually SEE it...

Marc Colemont · September 16th, 2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Oakley

720P up converts very nicely

for anyone at IBC this week, check out the Matrox booth where my 720P footage is playing on a 1080p screen. I did the MXO2 show loop :)

Hi Steve,

It looked great indeed. I stood 2 feet away from the Big monitor looking at the images (not knowing it was shot with the JVC)
In the video, did you use lights manually to light-up the unit gradually or a moving light?

Steve Oakley · September 16th, 2008, 08:54 PM

I actually either moved the key light or moved a flag in or out. I think it was a pretty cool look that was simple to do. the key was a 2X24 fluorescent . glad you liked it , thanks !

Steve Mullen · September 17th, 2008, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey

Oh and 720p 24fps is MUCH faster downconversion to DVD than 1080i or 108024f HDV.

I would expect the criteria would be NOW be burning BD discs. And, although the BD spec supports 720p -- none of the low cost software yet supports anything but 1080i. The reason, of course, the sheer greater number of 1080i camcorders.

The other issue is that almost, if not every, new HDTV is 1920x1080. So at some point, there is going to need to be a significant upscale required from 720p. (Of course, certain 1080i camcorders get their resolution at the beginning by upscaling the CCD output.

In fact, 1440x1080 recording is no longer state-of-the-art in a 1920x1080 world.

The EX1's native 1920x1080 CMOS chips plus the ability to switch between I and P is really where one needs to be for the future. But, there will always be a future -- 1080p60 -- so I would say if it meets your needs for 12 months -- go for it.

PS 1: yes, broadcast uses 720p, but it is 720p60 which is a whole different beast than being limited to p30. So the key was his budget for the 200 or 110? On the other hand, if he want's a film look, 720p30 is fine.

PS 2: Europe is very much in a hurry for 1080p50. And, those shooting concerts to be released on BD want it too. And, broadcasters would love to have stuff shot in p60 even if they can't yet transmit it. CMOS makes p50/p60 the norm -- so it can't be long till we see the ability to record it to HHD or SD.

Stuart Nimmo · September 22nd, 2008, 05:01 PM

Tim, thanks for that useful info about the KA-MR100. Do you know, is it irrevocably wedded to a V-Lock plate? I've replaced mine with an Anton Bauer and PAG adapter so that my GY-HD201E is compatible with the rest of my kit.

The one rule in life it that you can't win I guess!

September 12th, 2008, 06:11 PM	#1
Stefan Immler Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Washington DC Posts: 162	Is 720p still up to snuff? Hi all -- I am about to purchase my first HD camcorder for a documentary movie. I think the GY-HD100/200 camcorders might be great for me, but my partner raised the question if investing in a 720 camcorder makes sense in an age where virtually all other camcorders can record in 1080. Would be interested to hear what you think about this. Is 720 an outdated format/resolution?

September 22nd, 2008, 05:01 PM	#15
Stuart Nimmo Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Paris France Posts: 89	KA-MR100 - V lock Tim, thanks for that useful info about the KA-MR100. Do you know, is it irrevocably wedded to a V-Lock plate? I've replaced mine with an Anton Bauer and PAG adapter so that my GY-HD201E is compatible with the rest of my kit. The one rule in life it that you can't win I guess!

September 15th, 2008, 11:28 AM	#4
Alex Humphrey Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: california North and South Posts: 642	Oh and 720p 24fps is MUCH faster downconversion to DVD than 1080i or 108024f HDV. (DVC-PRO-HD 720p 24fps might be faster in down conversion rendering time though than HDV)

September 15th, 2008, 06:14 PM	#5
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Several years from now you may see a push for 1080p, but 720p and 1080i will last for at least the next ten years. Everyone just made the jump to HD and no one is in a hurry to change again. So definitely, 720p is a good investment. I would however recommend the newer models so you have the option of 720p/60 and 1080i to a Firestore. I think that the added cost would be a good investment.

September 15th, 2008, 06:45 PM	#7
Ben Lynn Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 636	Nice. I made my recommendation because I shoot on a 100. I love the camera and 30p for anything I do that's a doc style. I couldn't ask for anything better (actually I could but I won't go there because overall it's a great camera). The hard part is when I'm doing a mixed camera event. For example, I may have a tennis training video later this year. It needs to be shot in 1080i so I can't use my own camera on the shoot : ( I sure wish I could because I love the control I have with the JVC. Even if it could shoot 60p I would use it. So it's not that I'm unhappy with the camera, I just wish I had more format options so that I could use it more! What lens and battery combo are you going to use with it?

September 15th, 2008, 07:42 PM	#9
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	720P up converts very nicely for anyone at IBC this week, check out the Matrox booth where my 720P footage is playing on a 1080p screen. I did the MXO2 show loop :)

September 16th, 2008, 01:34 AM	#10
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	unfortunately , all 720p camera are getting pretty old now, so the choice is more limited than with 1080. that would be probably the only reason why i would not recommend a 720p camera if your choice is going to these JVC models. (i would wait for the new models with SxS card)

September 16th, 2008, 08:54 PM	#13
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	I actually either moved the key light or moved a flag in or out. I think it was a pretty cool look that was simple to do. the key was a 2X24 fluorescent . glad you liked it , thanks !