16 mm zoom for HZ-CA13U at DVinfo.net

Alex Pitstra · September 11th, 2008, 08:23 AM

First of all I would like to say hi, since this is my first post here. It is about time. I have been nosing around here for more then a year.

I would like to know which 16mm or Super16 lens would approximate the characteristics of the Fujinon 13x. I own the Fujinon with my HD201e and it is awesome. I adore this lens, but I want to purchase a 16mm lens as a replacement, since it has slightly smaller DoF and better light transmittance.

I already have the HZ-CA13U adapter with a Kinor 10-100 lens, but this lens does not work for me. It shows vignetting at the widest end, has no macro function and the zoom and focus ring are not smooth at all.

I need this type of 16mm lens:
- wide-angle to (medium)tele
- macro-function for close focus
- smooth zoom and focus ring (focus ring should not be at outer end, like the Kinor, since it would then be blocked by a mattebox)
- suitable for documentary style (handheld) shooting.

Which lens would be my best option?

I have been looking at this one:

Visual Products - Equipmant For Sale - Lenses - Zoom Lenses - 16mm Zoom Lenses - Zeiss Vario Sonnar 10-100mm T2 MKII

Would this lens give vignetting? Or is a super16 lens a better option? Does anyone have experience with this in combination with the HZ-CA13U.

Btw, I'm not interested in primes at this moment.

Thanks in advance,

Alex

Tim Dashwood · September 11th, 2008, 11:19 AM

An exact equivalent to a 3.5x13 in 16mm would be about 7mm - 91mm. (approximately 2:1 gate size 16mm compared to 1/3")
Angenieux has a 7-81mm T2.4 and Canon 7mm-63mm T2.6. Both cover super-16 so you would avoid vignetting. These lenses rent for about $175/day but I'm not sure what you would be looking at for purchase.

Vignetting is a whole other story. I suspect that any standard 16 zoom mounted on the HZ-CA13U will have a slight bit of loss on the corners. I've mostly used and tested 35mm format lenses and the coverage far exceeds 16mm. Super-16 also works well but you will see it there is still some slight loss in the corners. I actually use my Kinor 10-100 specifically for the vignetting! Did yours come with the x.75 wide angle adapter?

Macro function will not be available in most 16mm zooms I know of. It doesn't matter anyway because you can adjust the backfocus of the HZ-CA13U to obtain macro focus (among other close-focus effects.)

I'm not sure if any zoom attached to the HZ-CA13U would be suitable for documentary work. That rig will be 5.5 inches longer than normal.

Brian Drysdale · September 11th, 2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Macro function will not be available in most 16mm zooms I know of. It doesn't matter anyway because you can adjust the backfocus of the HZ-CA13U to obtain macro focus (among other close-focus effects.)

The Zeiss T2 10 - 100 has a macro, they can be modified to cover Super 16 (T2.4 12 to 120). You'll get vignetting focusing closer than 5 feet at the wide of the zoom (until about 16mm if I recall).

Alex Pitstra · September 12th, 2008, 06:00 AM

Thanks Tim and Brian,

Tim, my Kinor did not come with a .75x wide angle adapter. Is that zoom-trough?
I however do have the Century Optics .5x/.7x wide adapter, which also fits nicely on the Kinor and works well. But the whole idea of using an adapter disables the possibility of zooming to tele while you shoot. Of course, it is useful for fixed settings and single shots.

I've seen 10mm wide with the Kinor and it is already pretty wide in comparison to the Fujinon stock-lens. I guess when using a super16 7mm Angenieux or Canon, and compensate for some possible vignetting, I would end up with a useable focal length of about 8mm at it's widest. That's about 4mm on the Fujinon 13x, right?
Thus, those two lenses seem to be my best option, although they seem to be very expensive. I'll guess the best way to really test them is to rent them for a while or visit a rental company in Amsterdam.

I hope the rig will still be useable. I have support rods with dual handgrips, and fairly long arms :)

Tim, you mention using the backfocus for close-focussing. How can I calibrate backfocus in the field, when using the backfocus-lever constantly for close-focus effects? Is a macro-function in that case not essential?

That would lead me back to Brian's suggestion of the Super16 Zeiss 12-120mm, which has macro,
But then I think it would not be wide enough , even if it fully covers the FoV, without vignetting.
Or does 12mm-120mm/super16 directly translate to 10mm-100mm/16mm? (i.e. Does it look just as wide as when I mount a 10mm/16mm lens, or do I lose 2mm and possibly more)

Adding 1 + 1 when reading your suggestions, I guess I need a 7mm Super16 lens with macro. Haven't seen one indeed...

I have another question about the HZ. My HZ-CA13U has serial number C0001. It is supposed to have a clear marking on the barrel, indicating the 52mm focal plane. It seems to be missing at mine. Tim, you've mentioned in another post that you had tested the same type. Do we have some sort of prototype?

Claude Mangold · September 12th, 2008, 08:13 AM

Alex, this may be helpful to you:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...6mm-zooms.html

Adam Berman · October 9th, 2008, 01:59 AM

I have the JVC PL lens adaptor and a Zeiss 12-120mm T/2.4 Super-16mm zoom lens.

Problem is I want to use the zoom lens but haven't been able to find an industrial strength lens support bracket for the HZ-CA13U adaptor. The HZ-CA13U adaptor has the small standard tripod screw thread in it and all the lens support systems have the larger tripod adaptor screw. There typically isn't enough clearance to downsize the screw on the lens support brackets to get the screw smaller.

I'm concerned the zoom lens is too heavy for the adaptor without a lens support Anyone have any luck.

Tim, when you did the adaptor test at Sundance, did you use a lens support system for the HZ-CA13U adaptor? If so, what configuration and brand lens support did you use?

Tim Dashwood · October 9th, 2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Berman

Tim, when you did the adaptor test at Sundance, did you use a lens support system for the HZ-CA13U adaptor? If so, what configuration and brand lens support did you use?

We had a ring style lens support rented from Birns & Sawyer.

September 11th, 2008, 08:23 AM	#1
Alex Pitstra New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Groningen, The Netherlands Posts: 15	16 mm zoom for HZ-CA13U First of all I would like to say hi, since this is my first post here. It is about time. I have been nosing around here for more then a year. I would like to know which 16mm or Super16 lens would approximate the characteristics of the Fujinon 13x. I own the Fujinon with my HD201e and it is awesome. I adore this lens, but I want to purchase a 16mm lens as a replacement, since it has slightly smaller DoF and better light transmittance. I already have the HZ-CA13U adapter with a Kinor 10-100 lens, but this lens does not work for me. It shows vignetting at the widest end, has no macro function and the zoom and focus ring are not smooth at all. I need this type of 16mm lens: - wide-angle to (medium)tele - macro-function for close focus - smooth zoom and focus ring (focus ring should not be at outer end, like the Kinor, since it would then be blocked by a mattebox) - suitable for documentary style (handheld) shooting. Which lens would be my best option? I have been looking at this one: Visual Products - Equipmant For Sale - Lenses - Zoom Lenses - 16mm Zoom Lenses - Zeiss Vario Sonnar 10-100mm T2 MKII Would this lens give vignetting? Or is a super16 lens a better option? Does anyone have experience with this in combination with the HZ-CA13U. Btw, I'm not interested in primes at this moment. Thanks in advance, Alex

September 11th, 2008, 11:19 AM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	An exact equivalent to a 3.5x13 in 16mm would be about 7mm - 91mm. (approximately 2:1 gate size 16mm compared to 1/3") Angenieux has a 7-81mm T2.4 and Canon 7mm-63mm T2.6. Both cover super-16 so you would avoid vignetting. These lenses rent for about $175/day but I'm not sure what you would be looking at for purchase. Vignetting is a whole other story. I suspect that any standard 16 zoom mounted on the HZ-CA13U will have a slight bit of loss on the corners. I've mostly used and tested 35mm format lenses and the coverage far exceeds 16mm. Super-16 also works well but you will see it there is still some slight loss in the corners. I actually use my Kinor 10-100 specifically for the vignetting! Did yours come with the x.75 wide angle adapter? Macro function will not be available in most 16mm zooms I know of. It doesn't matter anyway because you can adjust the backfocus of the HZ-CA13U to obtain macro focus (among other close-focus effects.) I'm not sure if any zoom attached to the HZ-CA13U would be suitable for documentary work. That rig will be 5.5 inches longer than normal. __________________ Tim Dashwood

September 12th, 2008, 08:13 AM	#5
Claude Mangold Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Berlin and Geneva Posts: 259	Previous thread on similar subject Alex, this may be helpful to you: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...6mm-zooms.html

October 9th, 2008, 01:59 AM	#6
Adam Berman New Boot Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 6	Zeiss 12-120 T/2.4 Super-16mm lens I have the JVC PL lens adaptor and a Zeiss 12-120mm T/2.4 Super-16mm zoom lens. Problem is I want to use the zoom lens but haven't been able to find an industrial strength lens support bracket for the HZ-CA13U adaptor. The HZ-CA13U adaptor has the small standard tripod screw thread in it and all the lens support systems have the larger tripod adaptor screw. There typically isn't enough clearance to downsize the screw on the lens support brackets to get the screw smaller. I'm concerned the zoom lens is too heavy for the adaptor without a lens support Anyone have any luck. Tim, when you did the adaptor test at Sundance, did you use a lens support system for the HZ-CA13U adaptor? If so, what configuration and brand lens support did you use?

September 12th, 2008, 06:00 AM	#4
Alex Pitstra New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Groningen, The Netherlands Posts: 15	Thanks Tim and Brian, Tim, my Kinor did not come with a .75x wide angle adapter. Is that zoom-trough? I however do have the Century Optics .5x/.7x wide adapter, which also fits nicely on the Kinor and works well. But the whole idea of using an adapter disables the possibility of zooming to tele while you shoot. Of course, it is useful for fixed settings and single shots. I've seen 10mm wide with the Kinor and it is already pretty wide in comparison to the Fujinon stock-lens. I guess when using a super16 7mm Angenieux or Canon, and compensate for some possible vignetting, I would end up with a useable focal length of about 8mm at it's widest. That's about 4mm on the Fujinon 13x, right? Thus, those two lenses seem to be my best option, although they seem to be very expensive. I'll guess the best way to really test them is to rent them for a while or visit a rental company in Amsterdam. I hope the rig will still be useable. I have support rods with dual handgrips, and fairly long arms :) Tim, you mention using the backfocus for close-focussing. How can I calibrate backfocus in the field, when using the backfocus-lever constantly for close-focus effects? Is a macro-function in that case not essential? That would lead me back to Brian's suggestion of the Super16 Zeiss 12-120mm, which has macro, But then I think it would not be wide enough , even if it fully covers the FoV, without vignetting. Or does 12mm-120mm/super16 directly translate to 10mm-100mm/16mm? (i.e. Does it look just as wide as when I mount a 10mm/16mm lens, or do I lose 2mm and possibly more) Adding 1 + 1 when reading your suggestions, I guess I need a 7mm Super16 lens with macro. Haven't seen one indeed... I have another question about the HZ. My HZ-CA13U has serial number C0001. It is supposed to have a clear marking on the barrel, indicating the 52mm focal plane. It seems to be missing at mine. Tim, you've mentioned in another post that you had tested the same type. Do we have some sort of prototype?