HD 110...firewire paranoia !? at DVinfo.net

Mat Thompson · May 14th, 2008, 07:32 AM

Hi guys.

Ok I'm familiar with all the suggestions about protecting the firewire circuit in this camara.

I have a firewire cable but its to thick to follows the looping twice through the ferite block guideline from the manual. These things are to stop EMC if I'm not mistaken so will just putting it straight onto the cable (one loop) reduce its function?

Also in terms of firewire quality, do people think this effects the potential for fw circuit issues?

Many thanks
Mat

Mark Silva · May 14th, 2008, 10:07 AM

I have one cable that has a ferrite core molded into it, and many other 6 pin cables that don't have it at all.

I'm not really sure its a problem.

I see your from Chelmsford Essex. Nice Town, I visited there many years ago.

Marc Colemont · May 14th, 2008, 01:35 PM

The EMC ferrite protects incoming and outgoing high frequency noise.
For example a Mobile Phone, or a spike induced through the power lines when a device is been plugged in or out.
It results in temporally lost firewire connections or bad video frames while capturing

The ferrite it absorbs these unwanted interferences to keep the signal clean(er), and to make sure these spikes cannot damage in- or outputs.
So you will see no difference with or without these ferrets when capturing data at first sight. It keeps your signal cleaner.
The longer the cable the more noise interference the cable will pickup, and thus the more effective the ferrite will do it's work during interference noise.
Good shielded cable will be less sensitive to this EMC noise, twisting the cable twice on the ferrite will be better indeed

Important:
It does NOT protect against plugging in and out the firewire cables,
as these failures are caused by ground loops with discharge currents floating between devices during connection.

Mat Thompson · May 14th, 2008, 05:52 PM

Mark - Yeah I like Essex myself. I'n actually from the north of England so a bit of a foreigner myself.

Marc - Interesting reading, you've backed up my thinking. All these stories of expensive blown firewire circuits are not nice !

Giuseppe Pugliese · May 14th, 2008, 11:53 PM

on this topic... I have the "no power" firewire cable that is the safe cable to use...

Is it safe to hotswap the camera now that im using a plug that doesn't have a power pin in it? or is that still very dangerous and I should still power down everything before plugging/unplugging?

David Scattergood · May 15th, 2008, 02:24 AM

Have a look for a firewire port isolator - they're pretty expensive for what they are so perhaps you can source a cheaper alternative (get an electronics bod to build you one!)

Just drill it into your head the the cable must entered the right way up (one end is slightly curved) and that your PC/Mac and camera are off.
If you use a Mac I tend to just drop it into sleep mode which only takes a second to 'boot' back up.
Blowing your port/motherboard aren't urban myths - they do happen unfortunately...I lost an older camera to this some time ago :(

mat - my firewire cable came with the ferrite blocks 'hard wired' onto the cable - I don't recall it being that expensive either - perhaps grab one of these and an isolator for piece of mind?

Robert Castiglione · May 15th, 2008, 04:32 AM

There are several things I have been wondering about concerning this entire issue of blown firewire ports (a friend of mine had to replace both on each of his JVCs at very great expense).

Is it JUST that people plug them in the wrong way that is the sole problem? Alternatively, is it the fact that even if you plug them in the right way, they might still damage your camera because firewire passes power?

The second issue. Is putting your mac into sleep enough? Isnt it the case that even in sleep mode the firewire cable is still transmitting power?

Oh, thats right I have a third issue. Where can I get one of those port isolator firewire cables in Australia?

Ok, I will be satisfied even if someone answers just one of my questions.

Rob

David Scattergood · May 15th, 2008, 04:49 AM

Can't full answer your questions Rob, but my isolator is Kramer - they have an Australian website - try this:

http://www.krameraustralia.com.au/se...alia.com.au%2F

Robert Castiglione · May 15th, 2008, 04:58 AM

Thanks David. I have sent an email message to Kramer Australia asking if they have one in Australia.

Rob

Marc Colemont · May 15th, 2008, 06:24 AM

It doesn't say it's an isolator, it sais ESD protector.
I would like to see a picture of it inside to know what it does...

Jay Webster · May 15th, 2008, 06:52 AM

Try This:
http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/356

Jay Webster
WPI/NY

Robert Castiglione · May 15th, 2008, 07:12 AM

Yes, the firewire depot cable is exactly what I want. Sadly they want to charge $70USD to get a $20 cable to Australia! I would certainly have been content with ordinary post but they wont have that.

I have looked without success for alternatives.

Rob

Joseph A. Benoit · May 15th, 2008, 08:06 AM

Hello Mat
go online.
Goto to firewire depot.com

the item you need is FIREWIRE 1394A CABLE 8 INCH PORT INSOLATER
COST $21.95 US

I have 2
1-camera
1-for the my computer cable i use a FOCUS DR HD100
EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THEM I STILL SHUT MY CAMERA BEFORE I DISCONNECT

GOOD LUCK
JOE

Mark Silva · May 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM

regardless of whatever you have (isolator or no, or 4pin which does not carry power)

ALWAYS power off the cam and the computer when connecting.

It is CHEAP insurance compared to dealing with blown ports which can cost up to $ 1,000 usd to fix.

Giuseppe Pugliese · May 15th, 2008, 01:24 PM

I guess I should post my question again... It didn't seem like anyone realized what I had asked...

I DO own a firewire port Isolator, So am I still at risk for hot swapping ? or do I not have to worry about powering down the computer anymore?

Is the problem just the power transmitting to the jvc, or are there other issues at hand here...With the port isolator protect me from now on, or should I still have to worry about it all?

May 14th, 2008, 07:32 AM	#1
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	HD 110...firewire paranoia !? Hi guys. Ok I'm familiar with all the suggestions about protecting the firewire circuit in this camara. I have a firewire cable but its to thick to follows the looping twice through the ferite block guideline from the manual. These things are to stop EMC if I'm not mistaken so will just putting it straight onto the cable (one loop) reduce its function? Also in terms of firewire quality, do people think this effects the potential for fw circuit issues? Many thanks Mat

May 14th, 2008, 01:35 PM	#3
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	The EMC ferrite protects incoming and outgoing high frequency noise. For example a Mobile Phone, or a spike induced through the power lines when a device is been plugged in or out. It results in temporally lost firewire connections or bad video frames while capturing The ferrite it absorbs these unwanted interferences to keep the signal clean(er), and to make sure these spikes cannot damage in- or outputs. So you will see no difference with or without these ferrets when capturing data at first sight. It keeps your signal cleaner. The longer the cable the more noise interference the cable will pickup, and thus the more effective the ferrite will do it's work during interference noise. Good shielded cable will be less sensitive to this EMC noise, twisting the cable twice on the ferrite will be better indeed Important: It does NOT protect against plugging in and out the firewire cables, as these failures are caused by ground loops with discharge currents floating between devices during connection. __________________ Marc Colemont - Belgium - http://www.mc-productions.be JVC GY-HM850's, HM890, HM600

May 15th, 2008, 04:49 AM	#8
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Can't full answer your questions Rob, but my isolator is Kramer - they have an Australian website - try this: http://www.krameraustralia.com.au/se...alia.com.au%2F Last edited by David Scattergood; May 15th, 2008 at 05:28 AM.

May 15th, 2008, 06:24 AM	#10
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	It doesn't say it's an isolator, it sais ESD protector. I would like to see a picture of it inside to know what it does... __________________ Marc Colemont - Belgium - http://www.mc-productions.be JVC GY-HM850's, HM890, HM600

May 14th, 2008, 10:07 AM	#2
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	I have one cable that has a ferrite core molded into it, and many other 6 pin cables that don't have it at all. I'm not really sure its a problem. I see your from Chelmsford Essex. Nice Town, I visited there many years ago.

May 14th, 2008, 05:52 PM	#4
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Mark - Yeah I like Essex myself. I'n actually from the north of England so a bit of a foreigner myself. Marc - Interesting reading, you've backed up my thinking. All these stories of expensive blown firewire circuits are not nice !

May 14th, 2008, 11:53 PM	#5
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	on this topic... I have the "no power" firewire cable that is the safe cable to use... Is it safe to hotswap the camera now that im using a plug that doesn't have a power pin in it? or is that still very dangerous and I should still power down everything before plugging/unplugging?

May 15th, 2008, 02:24 AM	#6
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Have a look for a firewire port isolator - they're pretty expensive for what they are so perhaps you can source a cheaper alternative (get an electronics bod to build you one!) Just drill it into your head the the cable must entered the right way up (one end is slightly curved) and that your PC/Mac and camera are off. If you use a Mac I tend to just drop it into sleep mode which only takes a second to 'boot' back up. Blowing your port/motherboard aren't urban myths - they do happen unfortunately...I lost an older camera to this some time ago :( mat - my firewire cable came with the ferrite blocks 'hard wired' onto the cable - I don't recall it being that expensive either - perhaps grab one of these and an isolator for piece of mind?

May 15th, 2008, 04:32 AM	#7
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	There are several things I have been wondering about concerning this entire issue of blown firewire ports (a friend of mine had to replace both on each of his JVCs at very great expense). Is it JUST that people plug them in the wrong way that is the sole problem? Alternatively, is it the fact that even if you plug them in the right way, they might still damage your camera because firewire passes power? The second issue. Is putting your mac into sleep enough? Isnt it the case that even in sleep mode the firewire cable is still transmitting power? Oh, thats right I have a third issue. Where can I get one of those port isolator firewire cables in Australia? Ok, I will be satisfied even if someone answers just one of my questions. Rob

May 15th, 2008, 04:58 AM	#9
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Thanks David. I have sent an email message to Kramer Australia asking if they have one in Australia. Rob

May 15th, 2008, 06:52 AM	#11
Jay Webster Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York Posts: 131	Try This: http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_...roducts_id/356 Jay Webster WPI/NY

May 15th, 2008, 07:12 AM	#12
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Yes, the firewire depot cable is exactly what I want. Sadly they want to charge $70USD to get a $20 cable to Australia! I would certainly have been content with ordinary post but they wont have that. I have looked without success for alternatives. Rob

May 15th, 2008, 08:06 AM	#13
Joseph A. Benoit Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coconut Creek FL Posts: 291	Hello Mat go online. Goto to firewire depot.com the item you need is FIREWIRE 1394A CABLE 8 INCH PORT INSOLATER COST $21.95 US I have 2 1-camera 1-for the my computer cable i use a FOCUS DR HD100 EVEN THOUGH I HAVE THEM I STILL SHUT MY CAMERA BEFORE I DISCONNECT GOOD LUCK JOE

May 15th, 2008, 12:13 PM	#14
Mark Silva Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 431	regardless of whatever you have (isolator or no, or 4pin which does not carry power) ALWAYS power off the cam and the computer when connecting. It is CHEAP insurance compared to dealing with blown ports which can cost up to $ 1,000 usd to fix.

May 15th, 2008, 01:24 PM	#15
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	I guess I should post my question again... It didn't seem like anyone realized what I had asked... I DO own a firewire port Isolator, So am I still at risk for hot swapping ? or do I not have to worry about powering down the computer anymore? Is the problem just the power transmitting to the jvc, or are there other issues at hand here...With the port isolator protect me from now on, or should I still have to worry about it all?