camera selection question.

[Drew Cusick]

Since we are comparing the XH A1 and the JVC's. I was wondering if both cameras suffered equally from the limitations of shooting HDV. Anyone know?

I want the shoulder mount and full ENG lens capability with the 60p, but all the talk about HDV scares me. I primarily shoot sports if that makes a difference, which means a lot of quick snap zooms and fast pans (which is why I really want a shoulder cam).

[Alan Ortiz]

Originally Posted by Werner Wesp

They did... A Panasonic HPX500.

Of course, but at a much higher price point, much larger, and without the JVC body, ergonomics, and small size. So let me clarify: an HVX in a JVC body. Thats the camera i want to purchase.

[Alex Humphrey]

Originally Posted by Terry Lee

Hey Alex, thanks alot for answering my questions. Those honestly were good answers! One question though...



I'm not entirely sure what this means simply because I have little experience in the post production process. I suppose from what I understand, if you capture footage at 24p or 60i that is simply the frame rate you captured in and once you have the footage at that rate you can't change it. But I suppose you can in post?


Thanks alot Alex!
-Terry.

Terry,


You CAN change it in post, but you really don't want to. If you had a slower shutter speed of 1/60th or slower, then you can take 30p and turn it into 24p then burn, but that is a LOT of effort and the results may still dissapoint.

I suppose my point is to have the least amount of changes from start to finish for the best looking result. Also don't reinvent the wheel. The movie industry has put a lot of money and time into making the best looking cost effective way to provide top quality video to the consumer. The DVD process is gear around taking 24p (film) turn it into digital video, and encode it DVD. Most of this process is invisible to the home editor now, so much so in fact that there is a lot of miss information out there. I don't claim to be an expert at all, but I am methodical in testing and researching, and occasionally I'm wrong. HEy I admit it.

Another good source of info is www.JVC.com and go to their pro section, then click on the HD110, then go to case history. There are now some independant movies being released now or soon at the theaters that were shot with the JVC HD110 and 200/250 series. The JVC is a good platform, and gives you the opportunity to expand on the quality of the production. You can start with a HD110 or 200 for $4,500-$5,500 and get very good looking 24p footage with the stock lens. Get an adapter and use Nikor 35mm primes for a few hundred more for narrative work. Or drop $3,000 - $8,000 for the Fujinon better lenses (better than the stock 16x lens). There are also units for capturing the uncompressed 60p footage straight off the component outputs of the HD110 bypassing the HDV encoder.

I've totally lost track of the original question of this thread, (sorry) but I think we were talking about a Canon A1 vs a JVC HD110. The Canon is a great camera, and best of all, you can't change it. You buy it, it works, when you outgrow it you sell it at a 50% loss and get something better. The JVC when you outgrow the lens, you get a new lens. When you decide you want to get away from HDV GOP, then go 60p or 24p off the component video capturing via a laptop pc/mac and there are lots of choices with different compressed formats that are all better than HDV. Of course at some point down the road, the original cost of the camcorder is less than any one of the other pieces.. but then you are taping (probably capturing directly to a portable RAID at this point) quality good enough for Sony Pictures to buy your movie and show it at the theaters. (ok, probably NOT with the stock 16x lens and maybe bypassing the HDV compression but still)

Or... where you looking for less conceptual differences and really wanting to know about 1/48th 1/60th 24p, 30p, 60p, 23.98, 29.97, 60i to DVD MPG encoding process?

[Diogo Athouguia]

Originally Posted by Terry Lee

Qual é o teu preferido?

Did you understand that? I am learning Portuguese :)

Lol, entendi perfeitamente. Boa sorte com o teu Português (good luck with your Portuguese)

Terry, if I understood correctly from your posts you are a novice and you can't really see what to look for on a camera. The XH-A1 like most semi-pro cameras may be acceptable for less experienced users, it is a fully automatic camera that will do most of the work for you. But when you start using pro cameras and improving your skills you will notice that a handheld camera is not enought... you just can't control it the way you whant. For example, the Canon won't let it focus while you are zooming... imagine you are on a event and you didn't have time to prepare your shot, you start a slow zoom on an important moment and the image gets out of focus... will you stop zooming, focus and zoom again or you'll zoom at the desired point and than focus? Either way you won't have the result you'd like. This is for me the worst issue of all the Canons, the second one is not to be able to record the audio independantly on the two channels. It is like driving an automatic or a manual car, I know that in US most cars are automatic and most drivers can't drive a manual gearbox car. In fact an automatic car is easier and more confortable to drive... but if you whant performance or if you are on a track you'll whant to fully control your machine. You won't find automatic transmissions on race cars for some reazon. The same happens with professional cameras, you'll whant to be able to fully control it the best you can, for that the camera must have good manual controls positioned on the right places... exaclty the oposite of the Canons.

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Is this sarcasm?

It is not sarcasm, it is just my opinion. I don't like the Canons, the image quality is not enought to define a good camera. They have lots of issues, the only advantage I can find is the good resolution in HDV. At least the XH-A1 is cheap, but the XL-H1 has the same defects and is too pricy... and has that stupid form factor body.

[James Thirston]

Originally Posted by Diogo Athouguia

They have lots of issues, the only advantage I can find is the good resolution in HDV. At least the XH-A1 is cheap, but the XL-H1 has the same defects and is too pricy... and has that stupid form factor body.

Diogo, I agree with your initial sentiments regarding the advantages of a true profesional over semi profesional camera, however, I don't concur with you about Canon cams having defects. I have one XL2 & two XH-A1 among my JVC 200U & DVXs and from my experience I find the JVC is the "buggiest" of all the cameras I own. I'm not talking about ergonomics here because I totally agree with you that the Canons have the worst servos and their shoulder mount XL series are anything but comfortable, however, the Canons are very reliable and their optics are spot on! Whereas the my 4 week old HD200 has all the typical inherent faults that others have complained about ad-nauseum on this forum:

1) Dead pixels come & go intermittently
2) "DDDDDDDD" appears on the LCD intermittently for no apparent reason
3) Terrible stock lens optics that not only have the worst CA I've seen, but also the colour temperature shifts from warm to cold with Iris adjustment
4) Iris ring feels like it skips gear teeth around f4/f5.6 when using manually (a colleague's HD101E does this too) yet when we went to the unveiling of the new HD201E at my local dealer the other night, that camera's Iris ring was as smooth as it should be.

Judging from the similar experiences others have been posting in this forum, JVC's quality control seems to be very hit & miss.

It is simply unacceptable that JVC's flagship prosumer (does not deserve to be called professional in my eyes) has been around for a few years yet JVC have not fixed these bugs.

Am I having buyer's remorse? I'm really starting to now, especially after the recent announcement of a $2,000 price drop off the Panasonic HPX-500.

JT

[Terry Lee]

Originally Posted by Alex Humphrey

I've totally lost track of the original question of this thread, (sorry) but I think we were talking about a Canon A1 vs a JVC HD110. The Canon is a great camera, and best of all, you can't change it. You buy it, it works, when you outgrow it you sell it at a 50% loss and get something better. The JVC when you outgrow the lens, you get a new lens. When you decide you want to get away from HDV GOP, then go 60p or 24p off the component video capturing via a laptop pc/mac and there are lots of choices with different compressed formats that are all better than HDV. Of course at some point down the road, the original cost of the camcorder is less than any one of the other pieces.. but then you are taping (probably capturing directly to a portable RAID at this point) quality good enough for Sony Pictures to buy your movie and show it at the theaters. (ok, probably NOT with the stock 16x lens and maybe bypassing the HDV compression but still)

Origionally I had asked what I would be paying for if I were to go with the HD200u. I stated that I had previously wanted to get the XH A1 but figured that the HD200u might give me much better results when trying to obtain the film look via 24p frame mode.

So here is my conclusion..Let me know if I totally screw this up.

1. The HD200u shoots 720p @ 24fps. Good for the infamous "film look."
2. Greater flexibility in workflow. Can capture footage to a DTE hard drive (doesn't Firestore make DTE hard drives for all the Canon models?).
3. Can change lenses where as with the XH A1 you cannot.
4. Manual focus lens. Also capable of full auto focus.
5. has 60p which is good for capturing footage for slow motion scenes.
6. It also is capable of broadcasting live 1080i footage at various frame rates?

Missing anything?

Or... where you looking for less conceptual differences and really wanting to know about 1/48th 1/60th 24p, 30p, 60p, 23.98, 29.97, 60i to DVD MPG encoding process?

I would really like to get better acquainted with this stuff as well.

I understand that the HD200u is capable of 720/60p, 720/30p,720/50p, 720/25p, and 720/24p. What I don't understand is 30p and 25p..why are these important?

Thank you Alex! (sorry it took me so long to reply, its finals week...)
-Terry.