New to HD and confused

[Miles Martin]

I've been happily shooting and editing in SD DV for years without a problem. I currently use the Canopus DVStorm with Adobe Premiere for editing and shoot with the JVC DV-500 cameras.

I'm looking to upgrade to HD with the JVC GY-HD200U cameras and I'm also looking at new editing software (Sony Vegas is my choice so far). But all of these HD specs (720/30p, 1080i, 720/24p, etc.) are making me crazy. I don't care for the 24p look (never have) so I could care less about that. All I'm looking to do is shoot and edit weddings in HD (with a nice sharp HD picture, not a film look) and provide both an SD DVD and an HD DVD for my customers.

Is there any resource, instructional video, or website that easily explains the process of shooting and editing in HD as well as what the best settings are for your camera, capturing in your editing system, rendering, creating Blu-Ray DVDs, and what Cineform is, etc.?

I've been trying to understand it all by reading a lot of posts here on dvinfo.net, but it's still confusing.

Thanks.

[Chris Hurd]

Hi Miles, I've moved your post into our JVC Pro HD forum so you can be among the folks who are using the camera system that you're thinking about buying.

Pretty much everything you need to know is here on DV Info Net; it's just a matter of finding it. It's been my goal for quite awhile to get a lot of this material -- answering the exact questions you're asking above -- into an organized series of documents in article format. It's a work in progress.

Meanwhile consider Tim Dashwood's tutorial DVD about the JVC Pro HD camera system, and browse our Amazon book store for relevant titles. Don't worry about the specs so much -- basically 720p and 1080i are the same amount of data. In my opinion the JVC Pro HD series is much more than adequate for wedding videography.

[Brian Luce]

I too transitioned to HD from the dv500. And also have DVstorm. An Hd200 will need more light than a 500. for settings a lot of us use paolo ciccone's truecolor III. for editing, vegas 8.0 is great and if your cpu is a newer dual core you can edit natively, if not, older versions of vegas have an intermediary codec called Cineform. If you go the intermediary codec route, you'll need more storage, it takes up a lot of space. Cineform also makes a stand alone caputer module called Neo. about $200.

[Miles Martin]

Thanks Chris and Brian,

Chris, thanks for moving my post. I thought it was more of a general question which is why I put it in the general area, but you're right, it would be better to get answers from people who use that JVC camera.

Brian, I have a dual core quad CPU with 3 gigs of Ram. The only thing I don't like about it is that it is set up for Vista and I don't think I can change it to XP, but the Vegas demo seems to work fine with it.

Here's where most of my confusion is, though.

I have a demo unit of the JVC GY-HD110U and I shot some footage in 720/30p at 60 sutter speed. When I look at the footage from the camera on an HD monitor using component cables, any tilts or pans are jittery and the image has a softer grainy look. Kinda like 24p that I've seen other people shoot at. I hate that look. Is this the way 720/30p always looks or did I do something wrong? The HD110U shoots HD SD60 which wasn't jittery, but I don't think that's true HD.

The HD200U shoots in 720/60p. Would that get rid of the jittery look? And can Sony Vegas pro 8 capture in 720/60p? Like I said, all I want is a nice sharp beautiful video (even if it's moving) that I can edit and output as a standard DVD (for customers who don't have HD televisions) and Blue Ray DVD for those who do have HD televisions.

[Brent Kolitz]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Meanwhile consider Tim Dashwood's tutorial DVD about the JVC Pro HD camera system...

Wait a minute -- Tim's DVD is available now? Where?

[Chris Hurd]

Well, let me put it this way, if Tim's DVD ain't available yet, it will be very soon...

[G. Lee Gordon]

I'd like to know how to get a hold of Tim's DVD also.

[Brian Luce]

Originally Posted by Miles Martin

I have a demo unit of the JVC GY-HD110U and I shot some footage in 720/30p at 60 sutter speed. When I look at the footage from the camera on an HD monitor using component cables, any tilts or pans are jittery and the image has a softer grainy look.

Okay, I've had the thread hijackers arrested by Homeland Security. HDV is prone to artifacting on pans and tilts done too quickly. Were they fast pans?

The grain? You shooting in low light? These things have only 1/3" ccd's. Your 500 is much more light sensitive...

[James Thirston]

Hi Miles,

If you're not a fan of the film look and prefer the Video look for weddings, you really should look at the Canon XH-A1 because it has a super clean look & the highest resolution & lowlight ability than other cams in it's class. If it's the ENG/shoulder mount ergonomics you're after there's nothing out there of quality that is priced like the JVC GY-HD series camcorders. The only other stuff that is shoulder mount HDV is in the sub $3,000 price range from Sony with 1/4" chips (all show but no go!! - forget it).

The JVC HD is the only way to go if you like that form factor, but, the only thing is that you have to re-learn how to shoot in progressive widescreen which can be quite challenging in run'n'gun situations like weddings. Keep in mind also that the stutter from 24P can look pretty awful if you plan on slowing down your footage in post (as we all still do when we edit weddings.) You gotta be very disciplined with your camera movement on the day because you just don't know which bits you're gonna slow down.

JT

PS: Hey Chris how do we get a hold of Tim's DVD, and is there another post on the forum that relates to this OT?

[Chris Hurd]

Okay, sorry for the threadjack, but Tim and I should have some news and ordering details for you very soon regarding his Pro HD tutorial DVD. And on an on-topic note, any camcorder can be used for just about any application. Since Miles is coming from a background with the JVC DV500 / 5000, it makes since that he'd want to transition to JVC Pro HD.

[Miles Martin]

Thanks for putting the thread back on track James.

So you're saying that anything with a "p" on the end will have the jitters during panning even on a 720p HD television (and it wasn't a fast pan either)?

From what I've been reading, Canon and Panasonic are going with "i" 1080i so does the interlacing keep the jitters from happening? I have a demo unit of the Canon XL-H1 (I think that's the model) and it's not very shoulder friendly. The lens is very top heavy and it's also about $3000 more than the JVC.

Anyone reading this thread that owns a JVC HD200, can you please confirm that there's no way of getting sharp, smooth, great looking HD footage with it? I was going to order one tomorrow (2/22).

Update- I've done more reading here (gonna need glasses soon) and is it safe to say that shooting in 720/60p (that the HD200 does) will get rid of the jerky look during pans?

[James Thirston]

You're pretty much on track, however don't confuse (720P & 1080i) frame sizes with (24P/30P/60i) frame capture rates.

To have less stutter it is preferable to shoot in interlaced (60i/50i) rather than progressive (24P/25P) however the JVC ProHD camcorders only shoot HDV in Progressive (unless ofcourse you go for the 200 model which shoots at double the frame rate (60P) but then I don't have that camera and I believe the file sizes generated at that frame rate are much bigger & take longer to edit & render??

I wouldn't give up though, it just takes practice. I've been shooting weddings in progressive with my Pana DVXs & more recently with my Canon A1 for ages, it takes a bit of practice. Geez you should have seen the first wedding I shot in 25P - it's so damn stuttery I can't bear to watch it today.

I agree about the XL-H1 and it horrid ergonomics the XL2 was just as bad - sorry to canon fans.

JT

[Dennis Robinson]

Originally Posted by Miles Martin

Thanks for putting the thread back on track James.

So you're saying that anything with a "p" on the end will have the jitters during panning even on a 720p HD television (and it wasn't a fast pan either)?

From what I've been reading, Canon and Panasonic are going with "i" 1080i so does the interlacing keep the jitters from happening? I have a demo unit of the Canon XL-H1 (I think that's the model) and it's not very shoulder friendly. The lens is very top heavy and it's also about $3000 more than the JVC.

Anyone reading this thread that owns a JVC HD200, can you please confirm that there's no way of getting sharp, smooth, great looking HD footage with it? I was going to order one tomorrow (2/22).

Update- I've done more reading here (gonna need glasses soon) and is it safe to say that shooting in 720/60p (that the HD200 does) will get rid of the jerky look during pans?

I had the same feelings as you when i first bought my JVC HD111. I had no idea what i was going to do with this camera to get away from the shuddering. people told me here on this site that i had to learn to shoot progressive and they were right. I shoot everything progressive now but have learnt not to pan like I used to. i have changed the way i use a camera now and it is fantastic. I shoot tV commercials for a living and cant remember the last time I saw judder. Its a matter of learning to shoot progressive. i cant believe the footage i get now and can only give all the credit to those on this site that told me what i had to do.

[David Scattergood]

Invest in a rubber band for your ultra smooth (and almost zero cost) pans...a fluid tripod helps considerably also. You'll learn to love the slow pans (and following the action centrally in the frame etc). I'm still learning mind.

Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson

I had the same feelings as you when i first bought my JVC HD111. I had no idea what i was going to do with this camera to get away from the shuddering. people told me here on this site that i had to learn to shoot progressive and they were right. I shoot everything progressive now but have learnt not to pan like I used to. i have changed the way i use a camera now and it is fantastic. I shoot tV commercials for a living and cant remember the last time I saw judder. Its a matter of learning to shoot progressive. i cant believe the footage i get now and can only give all the credit to those on this site that told me what i had to do.

Any tips for shooting progressive handheld? Slightly harder to carry off when holding this camera (although the weight of the thing helps!).
Good luck.

[Marc Colemont]

If you really want to run 'n gun with this camera without having to worry about panning and judder effects, you should look at the HD200 series as they can shoot 50/60P.
With the HD100 series shooting in 24,25,30P it needs more care. But you know what? Learning shooting progressive, makes your images look so much better and filmic.
Using panning while shooting needs to have a message...
With HD there is so much more detail in the picture that a wide shot can tell a story on it's own with some additional close up's. Were panning can distract what you want to show instead. I find it an everlasting learning curve shooting any sort of job and trying to achive a filmic result.
My 5 cents...