Is JVC's HDV good to go on Hi Def DVD's when the time comes?

[Justin Ferar]

I shoot 720p60. The footage is digitized as Apple Pro Res and edited. Up until this point I have been storing the finished programs as ProRes files on a raid array, but it's filling up as the files are pretty huge. I would love to convert those files back to HDV 720p60 for archiving. I did some tests and they look great.

Would those HDV files be suitable for authoring hi def DVDs? Obviously I don't want to have to re-encode to burn a hi def disc when DVD studio pro finally comes around to fully support HD discs.

Thanks!

[Scott Jaco]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

I shoot 720p60. The footage is digitized as Apple Pro Res and edited. Up until this point I have been storing the finished programs as ProRes files on a raid array, but it's filling up as the files are pretty huge. I would love to convert those files back to HDV 720p60 for archiving. I did some tests and they look great.

Would those HDV files be suitable for authoring hi def DVDs? Obviously I don't want to have to re-encode to burn a hi def disc when DVD studio pro finally comes around to fully support HD discs.

Thanks!

DVD Studio Pro 4.0 already fully supports HD DVD's. I've burned HD content onto standard red-laser media which played back flawlessly on a Toshiba A-1 player.

If you archive your media as HDV, you will eventually need to re-encode it to an Mpeg-2 HD-DVD preset found in Compressor. It's roughly the same bandwidth (around 19Mbps) but it is a different format, so it will take a while to encode it from HDV if you plan to archive in that codec.

[Justin Ferar]

Hi Scott- thanks for the reply.

HDV is MPEG-2 which is why I was hoping that when Hi Def discs (not DVD-5) become supported all I have to do is wrap my HDV files into a M2T files rather than re-encoding to something else.

I've run some informal tests using Compressors HD-DVD on a DVD-5 settings and find the video quality quite poor due to the limited bit rate of DVD-R. From what I understand the next generation discs (Blu-Ray & HD-DVD) should be able to handle the full bit rate of HDV which is why I was thinking this will be a drag and drop process.

Am I correct here?

[Kevin Shaw]

From what I hear the new high-def authoring programs and players can be quite particular about the specifications of the HD files they'll accept, so I wouldn't bet on your current output being supported unless you try it. I'd be particularly concerned about using 720p60 versus 720p30, which is more universal. For more info see the Blu-ray software user forum at the following link (registration required):

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=32

[Justin Ferar]

Hi Kevin, glad to heat from you.

I can't imagine 720p30 being more universal than 720p60. 720p60 is afterall a highly supported broadcast format and 720p30 is not. Also, every pro broadcast monitor and consumer HD television are required to support 720p60 (along with 1080i) if they wish to be sold in the US.

At this point I'm probably just going to hold on to archiving as ProRes and purchase some more storage until the specs are ironed out. I'll check out the forum you forwarded.

Thanks.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

I can't imagine 720p30 being more universal than 720p60. 720p60 is afterall a highly supported broadcast format and 720p30 is not.

My mistake: it looks like 720p at 24, 50 and 60 fps is supported while 720p30 is not. See page 17 of the following specifications document.

http://www.blu-raydisc.com/assets/do...0305-12955.pdf

[Daniel Browning]

HDV is not compatible with all hi-def players. That leaves you only three options:

1. Cheap & high-quality: remove your intermediate files, but keep the original MT2 and project files. Convert to intermediates again when needed. This is best done by setting the original files as proxies for the intermediates.

2. Expensive & high-quality: buy more RAID.

3. Cheap & low-quality: keep only the compressed render. Original HDV -> Pro Res -> HDV -> final output is a lot of recompression, and the quality will suffer.

[Justin Ferar]

After further reading it looks like H.264 (AVC) will be the final output format of choice for Hi Def discs for those of us editing in Pro Res or other intermediate. We could archive as H.264 but at what bit rate? I guess we'll never know until we get some burners and players to test out.

What happened to the 1TB Hitachi drives that made a big splash a few months ago. Supposed to be standard 3.5 inch and fit inside an internal slot. I can't find one yet. I'd love to jam 3 of them inside my mac for archiving. Already have the LaCie S2S 2.5TB for editing.

I digress.

[Scott Jaco]

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

After further reading it looks like H.264 (AVC) will be the final output format of choice for Hi Def discs for those of us editing in Pro Res or other intermediate. We could archive as H.264 but at what bit rate? I guess we'll never know until we get some burners and players to test out.

What happened to the 1TB Hitachi drives that made a big splash a few months ago. Supposed to be standard 3.5 inch and fit inside an internal slot. I can't find one yet. I'd love to jam 3 of them inside my mac for archiving. Already have the LaCie S2S 2.5TB for editing.

I digress.

Have you tried encoding a 1280x720 timeline in H264? The encode time is extremely long, to the point of not being practical. Stick with Mpeg-2 for your HD encodes.

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Scott Jaco

Have you tried encoding a 1280x720 timeline in H264? The encode time is extreamely long, to the point of not being practical. Stick with Mpeg-2 for your HD encodes.

Ditto that here, and encoding times are twice as long again for 1080i/p output. Plus not all HD-capable devices can handle an H.264 file, with the Xbox 360 being the most notable exception. If you do archive to H.264 use a high bit rate of at least 15-20 Mbps or more, but it would be quicker to encode back to HDV and let your authoring program worry about any final conversions later. Alternatively, if you have a render setting for MPEG2-HD at a bit rate of, say, 50 Mbps, you could try using that for your archiving. But the best thing would be to buy a Blu-ray burner now and start testing for yourself what encoding settings work for delivery on the finished discs, using Adobe CS3 or other Blu-ray capable software. That way you won't have any surprises later.

[Jim Andrada]

First Law of Technology: There will ALWAYS be surprises. Very occasionally they will be pleasant.

[Justin Ferar]

Update: Well it turns out that you can just take an HDV file straight into DVDSP and burn it! The only bummer is that 720p60 is not supported- only formats that are 30fps (or 60i) are an option. This sucks because I shoot in 60p! So I either have to convert to 1080i or just burn at 720p30.