Report from NAB

David Mintzer · April 24th, 2003, 01:45 PM

I was under the impression that 900 wasn't shipping until May----.

Heath McKnight · April 24th, 2003, 01:52 PM

I heard that too. It's almost pointless to have this debate since I won't be going into production on my film 9:04 AM for at least 18 months.

heath
www.904am.net

<<<-- Originally posted by David Mintzer : I was under the impression that 900 wasn't shipping until May----. -->>>

Glenn Gipson · April 24th, 2003, 01:55 PM

Yes, the SDX900 isn't even out yet.

Steve Mullen · April 24th, 2003, 04:30 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : My friend is deciding between buying the PAL Ikegami HL-DV7W and the SDX900 and decided the SDX900 isn't ideal for going to hi-def or 35 mm film. He based this on renting both cameras and said in he (and his company's) professional opinion, the Ikegami was closest to the VariCam when the Ike is transferred to HD and 35 mm. -->>>

If the Ike is DVCAM with 4:1:1 at 5:1 compression I would have to say his eyes need lots of help.

I'd also wonder how he rented both since the 900 isn't out yet. Something seems fishy about these references to Ike.

I reviewed it and it's great for $12,000. But it's no SDX-900. Not even close.

Heath McKnight · April 24th, 2003, 04:32 PM

I'm sorry, I meant the Sony 500 PAL...Ugh, how embarressing.

The Ike is fine, according to my friend, who has shot everything from small movies to a documentary on Creed. I would say his eyes are just fine.

Heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : My friend is deciding between buying the PAL Ikegami HL-DV7W and the SDX900 and decided the SDX900 isn't ideal for going to hi-def or 35 mm film. He based this on renting both cameras and said in he (and his company's) professional opinion, the Ikegami was closest to the VariCam when the Ike is transferred to HD and 35 mm. -->>>

If the Ike is DVCAM with 4:1:1 at 5:1 compression I would have to say his eyes need lots of help.

I'd also wonder how he rented both since the 900 isn't out yet. Something seems fishy about these references to Ike.

I reviewed it and it's great for $12,000. But it's no SDX-900. Not even close. -->>>

Paul Mogg · April 24th, 2003, 05:10 PM

To be honest, I really don't see what the market will be for the SDX-900. As great as an SD camera that it probably is, it's still just that, an SD camera, and one that costs a lot of money at that.
$30,000 for the body alone, add $12,000 for a decent lens If I were thinking of making a feature film (to go to 35mm or just to be projected on a big screen), and I had that kind of money to buy a camera, I would find the extra $20,000 from somewhere and go HD for the resolution alone. If I were renting, I wouldn't think this camera will rent for much under $600-$700 per day, and I hear you can get great deals on renting the Varicam these days. If this camera had come in the uner $20,000 category I would have some hope for it, but as it stands I would think that most serious digital film-makers would go HD rather than use this camera, but perhaps they'll drop the price radically which will make it make more sense.

Paul

Heath McKnight · April 24th, 2003, 06:29 PM

I agree, but I wonder if I'll continue doing super-low budget films...They're fun, but a b--ch to do, but cost nothing (both a blessing and a curse). I probably will, and that's where our friend the mini-HD camera comes in (no matter which brand). Next year, my XL-1 will see it's 5 year wattanty expire and be, well, 5 years old. That's when I shall move to a new camera, hopefully a mini-HD and not DV or SD.

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : To be honest, I really don't see what the market will be for the SDX-900. As great as an SD camera that it probably is, it's still just that, an SD camera, and one that costs a lot of money at that.
$30,000 for the body alone, add $12,000 for a decent lens If I were thinking of making a feature film (to go to 35mm or just to be projected on a big screen), and I had that kind of money to buy a camera, I would find the extra $20,000 from somewhere and go HD for the resolution alone. If I were renting, I wouldn't think this camera will rent for much under $600-$700 per day, and I hear you can get great deals on renting the Varicam these days. If this camera had come in the uner $20,000 category I would have some hope for it, but as it stands I would think that most serious digital film-makers would go HD rather than use this camera, but perhaps they'll drop the price radically which will make it make more sense.

Paul -->>>

Glenn Gipson · April 24th, 2003, 06:33 PM

Paul,

Varicams, with lenses and all accessories, rent for at least 1,400 a day. Plus, you have to add in the fact that editing HD is much much more expensive then editing DV. So there is another big savings right there. 4:2:2 50mbps DV is becoming cheaper and cheaper to edit, all thanks to NLEs like Final Cut Pro4, and VTR manufacturers like Panasonic whom incorporate firewire into their 50mbps decks. As for the 900’s price, when it’s all said and done, the camera body might sell for somewhere in the upper ball park of 20k. That rental price, with a lens, should put it somewhere around 500 to 600 to rent for a day. Nonetheless, I defiantly see a market for the 900, especially when you take into consideration that shooting HD for a straight to DVD project is simply overkill. But, if one can afford HD, by all means, shoot in it.

Heath McKnight · April 24th, 2003, 06:56 PM

We aren't going straight-to-DVD on this film, just an HD master for the major film fests that accept digital, but only in HD. We also hope to go to tranfer to two or three 35 mm prints.

heath
www.904am.net

<<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : Paul,

Varicams, with lenses and all accessories, rent for at least 1,400 a day. Plus, you have to add in the fact that editing HD is much much more expensive then editing DV. So there is another big savings right there. 4:2:2 50mbps DV is becoming cheaper and cheaper to edit, all thanks to NLEs like Final Cut Pro4, and VTR manufacturers like Panasonic whom incorporate firewire into their 50mbps decks. As for the 900’s price, when it’s all said and done, the camera body might sell for somewhere in the upper ball park of 20k. That rental price, with a lens, should put it somewhere around 500 to 600 to rent for a day. Nonetheless, I defiantly see a market for the 900, especially when you take into consideration that shooting HD for a straight to DVD project is simply overkill. But, if one can afford HD, by all means, shoot in it. -->>>

Paul Mogg · April 24th, 2003, 11:41 PM

I've heard significantly lower prices than $1400 a day banded about for a Varicam, but you may well know better than I. But even at $1,000 a day it makes more sense to go HD and do a offline FCP edit with HD conform, which should be relatively cheap. I think most indie filmakers realize that resolution is a more important factor for big-screen projection quality than 24p, at least those that have seen the comparisons do.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the SDX900 is a great SD camera, and I would love one if I could afford it, but if I were thinking of making a low-budget indie feature, HD would be my choice.

All the best

Heath McKnight · April 24th, 2003, 11:49 PM

I agree, too. Now if only I can figure out what the hell is wrong with my new Mac...

heath
www.904am.net

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : I've heard significantly lower prices than $1400 a day banded about for a Varicam, but you may well know better than I. But even at $1,000 a day it makes more sense to go HD and do a offline FCP edit with HD conform, which should be relatively cheap. I think most indie filmakers realize that resolution is a more important factor for big-screen projection quality than 24p, at least those that have seen the comparisons do.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the SDX900 is a great SD camera, and I would love one if I could afford it, but if I were thinking of making a low-budget indie feature, HD would be my choice.

All the best -->>>

April 24th, 2003, 04:30 PM	#109
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : My friend is deciding between buying the PAL Ikegami HL-DV7W and the SDX900 and decided the SDX900 isn't ideal for going to hi-def or 35 mm film. He based this on renting both cameras and said in he (and his company's) professional opinion, the Ikegami was closest to the VariCam when the Ike is transferred to HD and 35 mm. -->>> If the Ike is DVCAM with 4:1:1 at 5:1 compression I would have to say his eyes need lots of help. I'd also wonder how he rented both since the 900 isn't out yet. Something seems fishy about these references to Ike. I reviewed it and it's great for $12,000. But it's no SDX-900. Not even close. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

April 24th, 2003, 05:10 PM	#111
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	re: sdx-900 To be honest, I really don't see what the market will be for the SDX-900. As great as an SD camera that it probably is, it's still just that, an SD camera, and one that costs a lot of money at that. $30,000 for the body alone, add $12,000 for a decent lens If I were thinking of making a feature film (to go to 35mm or just to be projected on a big screen), and I had that kind of money to buy a camera, I would find the extra $20,000 from somewhere and go HD for the resolution alone. If I were renting, I wouldn't think this camera will rent for much under $600-$700 per day, and I hear you can get great deals on renting the Varicam these days. If this camera had come in the uner $20,000 category I would have some hope for it, but as it stands I would think that most serious digital film-makers would go HD rather than use this camera, but perhaps they'll drop the price radically which will make it make more sense. Paul __________________ Paul

April 24th, 2003, 06:29 PM	#112
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Mini-HD may be in my future I agree, but I wonder if I'll continue doing super-low budget films...They're fun, but a b--ch to do, but cost nothing (both a blessing and a curse). I probably will, and that's where our friend the mini-HD camera comes in (no matter which brand). Next year, my XL-1 will see it's 5 year wattanty expire and be, well, 5 years old. That's when I shall move to a new camera, hopefully a mini-HD and not DV or SD. heath <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : To be honest, I really don't see what the market will be for the SDX-900. As great as an SD camera that it probably is, it's still just that, an SD camera, and one that costs a lot of money at that. $30,000 for the body alone, add $12,000 for a decent lens If I were thinking of making a feature film (to go to 35mm or just to be projected on a big screen), and I had that kind of money to buy a camera, I would find the extra $20,000 from somewhere and go HD for the resolution alone. If I were renting, I wouldn't think this camera will rent for much under $600-$700 per day, and I hear you can get great deals on renting the Varicam these days. If this camera had come in the uner $20,000 category I would have some hope for it, but as it stands I would think that most serious digital film-makers would go HD rather than use this camera, but perhaps they'll drop the price radically which will make it make more sense. Paul -->>>

April 24th, 2003, 11:41 PM	#115
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	re:sdx-900 I've heard significantly lower prices than $1400 a day banded about for a Varicam, but you may well know better than I. But even at $1,000 a day it makes more sense to go HD and do a offline FCP edit with HD conform, which should be relatively cheap. I think most indie filmakers realize that resolution is a more important factor for big-screen projection quality than 24p, at least those that have seen the comparisons do. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the SDX900 is a great SD camera, and I would love one if I could afford it, but if I were thinking of making a low-budget indie feature, HD would be my choice. All the best __________________ Paul

April 24th, 2003, 11:49 PM	#116
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Re: re:sdx-900 I agree, too. Now if only I can figure out what the hell is wrong with my new Mac... heath www.904am.net <<<-- Originally posted by Paul Mogg : I've heard significantly lower prices than $1400 a day banded about for a Varicam, but you may well know better than I. But even at $1,000 a day it makes more sense to go HD and do a offline FCP edit with HD conform, which should be relatively cheap. I think most indie filmakers realize that resolution is a more important factor for big-screen projection quality than 24p, at least those that have seen the comparisons do. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that the SDX900 is a great SD camera, and I would love one if I could afford it, but if I were thinking of making a low-budget indie feature, HD would be my choice. All the best -->>>

April 24th, 2003, 01:45 PM	#106
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	I was under the impression that 900 wasn't shipping until May----.

April 24th, 2003, 01:52 PM	#107
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I heard that too. It's almost pointless to have this debate since I won't be going into production on my film 9:04 AM for at least 18 months. heath www.904am.net <<<-- Originally posted by David Mintzer : I was under the impression that 900 wasn't shipping until May----. -->>>

April 24th, 2003, 01:55 PM	#108
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Yes, the SDX900 isn't even out yet.

April 24th, 2003, 04:32 PM	#110
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'm sorry, I meant the Sony 500 PAL...Ugh, how embarressing. The Ike is fine, according to my friend, who has shot everything from small movies to a documentary on Creed. I would say his eyes are just fine. Heath <<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : My friend is deciding between buying the PAL Ikegami HL-DV7W and the SDX900 and decided the SDX900 isn't ideal for going to hi-def or 35 mm film. He based this on renting both cameras and said in he (and his company's) professional opinion, the Ikegami was closest to the VariCam when the Ike is transferred to HD and 35 mm. -->>> If the Ike is DVCAM with 4:1:1 at 5:1 compression I would have to say his eyes need lots of help. I'd also wonder how he rented both since the 900 isn't out yet. Something seems fishy about these references to Ike. I reviewed it and it's great for $12,000. But it's no SDX-900. Not even close. -->>>

April 24th, 2003, 06:33 PM	#113
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Paul, Varicams, with lenses and all accessories, rent for at least 1,400 a day. Plus, you have to add in the fact that editing HD is much much more expensive then editing DV. So there is another big savings right there. 4:2:2 50mbps DV is becoming cheaper and cheaper to edit, all thanks to NLEs like Final Cut Pro4, and VTR manufacturers like Panasonic whom incorporate firewire into their 50mbps decks. As for the 900’s price, when it’s all said and done, the camera body might sell for somewhere in the upper ball park of 20k. That rental price, with a lens, should put it somewhere around 500 to 600 to rent for a day. Nonetheless, I defiantly see a market for the 900, especially when you take into consideration that shooting HD for a straight to DVD project is simply overkill. But, if one can afford HD, by all means, shoot in it.

April 24th, 2003, 06:56 PM	#114
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	We aren't going straight-to-DVD on this film, just an HD master for the major film fests that accept digital, but only in HD. We also hope to go to tranfer to two or three 35 mm prints. heath www.904am.net <<<-- Originally posted by Glenn Gipson : Paul, Varicams, with lenses and all accessories, rent for at least 1,400 a day. Plus, you have to add in the fact that editing HD is much much more expensive then editing DV. So there is another big savings right there. 4:2:2 50mbps DV is becoming cheaper and cheaper to edit, all thanks to NLEs like Final Cut Pro4, and VTR manufacturers like Panasonic whom incorporate firewire into their 50mbps decks. As for the 900’s price, when it’s all said and done, the camera body might sell for somewhere in the upper ball park of 20k. That rental price, with a lens, should put it somewhere around 500 to 600 to rent for a day. Nonetheless, I defiantly see a market for the 900, especially when you take into consideration that shooting HD for a straight to DVD project is simply overkill. But, if one can afford HD, by all means, shoot in it. -->>>