Want a replacement for HD10

[Peter Frollo]

I need your opinion. I would like to replace my bulky HD10 with something smaller. I am prosumer “family shooter”, most of the time outdoor. I like 720p but willing to move to 1080i if in a smaller format. The biggest and most expensive camera I am willing to get is A1U.

Is there anything coming new and worth waiting for?

In a consumer range, which one is the best choice?
Sony HDR-SR1
Sony HDR-HC3
Sony HDR-UX1 - I do not like DVD mediums
Canon HV10 - people suggest getting an audio recoding device for this one, I am fine with that...

I know A1U will beat any of these….Anything else worth considering?

I am thinking to go low budget with HC3 and upgrade later for a similar format capable 720p camera. Any thoughts?

Please do not stone me for this post. :)

[Leonard Richardson]

Hi

There is a New JVC Everio HD . 1st of the year or before spring. I think it is going to be 720p and 1080p ( I read it somewere), but when you use the cam as play back it will output only in 1080i. format is unknown at this time far as file type. The cam looks great. If the manual controls are like the small GZ-505US it is going to be great. I have the GR-HD1 and the 505 and Will be getting the new HD also here is a link, there are some new updates out there just use search

http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/...erio-5988.html
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/n...o+3CCD+HD.html

[Zack Birlew]

From B&H Photo:

Canon HV10- $999
Zoom H4 Recorder- $300
2gb Lexar SD memory card- $100

Canon HV10 from most other places (ie. Best Buy, Fry's, ect.) - $1399

The best deal is from B&H Photo. =)

The A1U is okay but only if you want "some" manual control, the best part is the ring on the front for manual focus/zoom. Other than that, you may as well go with the HV10 setup. I'm not sure if you intend to sell your HD10U or not but if I were in your shoes, I'd keep it, it's a historic peice of digital video history, plus it's a decent camera.

Also, the HC3 could be an option, but I'd recommend the A1U over that one simply because it gives you more manual controls. Now if you were doing studio stuff, then the HC3 wouldn't be bad with an Intesity card.

[Jeff Kellam]

Leonard:

Nice links! Looks like a nice new JVC product. I personally thought they were dead due to ther financial troubles.

Peter:

I have been looking for quite a while for a replacement for my GR HD-1. I have been considering the Canon XH A1 and will probably get it after prices drop off the MSRP level unless something else new comes out soon.

In my evaluation of m2t clips from all the best HD camcorders, I discovered that the very best GR HD-1 footage was equivalent to most of what's currently available up to $3-4K. Of course the average footage is not always that great. So it makes it very hard to justify spending $4K for a new camera at this point for me.

Good luck in your search!

[Peter Frollo]

Thanks to all, this is all great stuff! I think I will wait and see. Decisions decisions decisions ...the fear is that once new cameras are released prices of used HD1/10 will fall like a rock making the switch more painful (expensive)....

[Jeff Kellam]

Originally Posted by Peter Frollo

Thanks to all, this is all great stuff! I think I will wait and see. Decisions decisions decisions ...the fear is that once new cameras are released prices of used HD1/10 will fall like a rock making the switch more painful (expensive)....

They are already very low.

B stock HD10s were selling for $1,100 on the JVC website. I look at my GR HD1 as my B camera or a backup.

Too good to practically give away and too low value to sell.

Jeff

[Wayne Morellini]

Originally Posted by Leonard Richardson

Hi

There is a New JVC Everio HD . 1st of the year or before spring. I think it is going to be 720p and 1080p ( I read it somewere), but when you use the cam as play back it will output only in 1080i. format is unknown at this time far as file type. The cam looks great. If the manual controls are like the small GZ-505US it is going to be great. I have the GR-HD1 and the 505 and Will be getting the new HD also here is a link, there are some new updates out there just use search

http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/...erio-5988.html
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/n...o+3CCD+HD.html

Keep an eye on Nab as well, or one of the camera shows latter in the year. I think there is one around mid year, and one around august that you see stuff in.

[James Harring]

I've settled the A1u both for more granular manual control and mostly for more extensive audio options. It was also cheaper than buying a porsche for my personal mid-life crisis. Way overkill for family videos IMO.

I think the decision you will want to make is how pro in prosumer you want to go. My A1u in automode does a fine job and I am finding I don't need to do as much manual as I intended, the auto does a great job for family videos.

I was also afraid 10x is not enough zoom for my wildlife photography. However, I have found acceptable for 90% of my needs and the other 10% is covered by the OEM 2x doubler. Overall, a much better situation than I thought it would be actually... mostly 'cause the video is so darn sharp, even on SD TV! I can tell you I am SO GLAD I went HD route over SD. You will be better setup for the future than with SD.

I do really like the audio flexibility, and likely would buy this again for this very reason. I am pretty picky about audio. I found the on-board mic's are far better than I expected them to be.

All the squawking about poor low light IMO is comparing commercial grade cams against this unit. If you are coming from consumer grade it's wonderful in low light -- blows all the consumer grade away in this area, except the old Sony TRV series... It is "as good" them. I did a side by side and I can vouch for this. Only other beef is the zoom is not good enough. Zooms too fast - can't creep zoom.

While I think the new Consumergrade Canon Camcorder is a nice piece of engineering, I am concerned how I would hold it. Not ergonomic. If you can work that out (to be fair, i mostly tripod my a1u, so this may be moot) I'd opin the either the hc3 or new canon would be just fine for you if all you want to do is shoot family stuff. Consider A1u if you need blackstretch and more manual and audio options.

I would bias towards small and light and against features and options for family cam. You want it simple to operate so the spouse is not intimidated (mine is) and portable enough so you will want to take it everywhere and easy enough so it is not a hassle. You end up missing spontaneous moments if you have to fiddle with it too much. (I strip off everything and flip it to auto when we do disney-nice and portable.)

Be sure to budget for accessories:
Polarizer, batteries, maybe wideangle and definitly a set of legs with quick leveller (wildlife shoooting) is minimum stuff needed. Or wait for Consumer Electronics show in Jan(?)... sure to be more toys out there.


One other comment - I am currently using the a1u as a telecine for transfer of our old family Super8 films to video. It has stirred up a lot of great memories in my family as I show them bits and pieces of the production. Shoot as much as you can of your family. Someday thirty years from now, you will see it was SO worthwhile.

[Ken Hodson]

Most everyone who bought a HD-1/10 bought it because of it being progressive image. We will see how the Everio pans out, but other then that there simply is no under $3500 cam to replace the HD-1/10 yet on the market.

[Leonard Richardson]

Hi

I don't think the Everio HD will replace the picture quality that can be produce from the HD 1/10 ( If you know how to use it) but I think it will fill a gap that is needed and do a great job as long it is true. I read yesterday that the menu is going to be just like the new 505 with all the manual modes
if this is true that is great (better than the past). I have a 505 and it has a good menu. If it is even close to the HD1/10 in picture quality It will be better than a few of the new low cost HD's on the market for sale. I'm sure JVC will use some type of std file system and just add a new file ext. to the end ( .Mpg ) my 505 uses a .mod file in my explore I changed it to .mpg and it plays great.


I'm just hoping it is true and all the manual features are there. most of all it works right !!
Only time will tell !!!

Len

[Ken Hodson]

Why do you believe it will not eclipse the HD1/10 in picture quality? Sensors have evolve much in the last 4 years. I don't think it can help but have better latitude, and proper manual control can only help the operator get the most from what is there. As to what format, who knows. Many think it will be standard HDV, but that is only to tape. Being a HDD cam who knows. I think it wil be Mpeg2 to disk. Personally I can't believe JVC invented the prosumer HD market. Shocked the world with a true progressive HD cam over 4 years ago, then has done nothing, fully abandoning the low end HD market to Canon and Sony, with the market still asking for a complete progressive HD cam.

[Wayne Morellini]

Maybe the sensor in the JVC might have improved between when it was first released and when it was last produced, due to manufacturer revisions. I asked this question about wherever the latest HD1/HD10 low light was better than the original months ago, but got no answers. So, has it improved, latitude and noise as well? In that case it "might" be within a smidgen of the Everio HD HDD. But according to an JVC man I talked to there is an single chip pro scheduled for middle of the year.

You notice that all their pre-announced plans for an Everio late last year got scrapped. It is likely they were waiting for something. Maybe to change codec, wait for new hardware, or maybe to change resolution (both 720p and 1080 were talked about last year). If it's not mpeg2, mpeg4, or VP, my guess would be h264 from Ambarella (which has not been used yet).

JVC did a good thing with releasing the HD1/10, but not at that price with the low gain, latitude, color, noise performance, and manual controls they did. It was only half there, like the Sanyo HD1 is only a quarter there. Now, things might have improved (codec and sensor revisions) and maybe it is almost to the level of more recent cameras.

[David Kennett]

It will be inreresting to see how much picture improvement we'll see in the forthcoming Sanyo HD2. And it's REALLY small!

[Peter Frollo]

I am still looking for the replacement..... I think that the "true" replacement would be PAL HV20 with 25fps. My understanding is that this would be true progressive video unlike NTSC HV20 with 24fps. Slower rate then the old HD10 but much higher resolution.

[Ken Hodson]

The PAL and NTSC both offer progressive modes (25p and 24p). Why would you think the 24p isn't true progressive but the 25p is? I don't understand your logic here.