Various posts concerning GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U at DVinfo.net

Robert Knecht Schmidt · February 13th, 2003, 08:54 AM

I'd like to know what NLE options will be available for editing footage from these cameras.

Since they'll be using MiniDV tapes, the bandwidth will probably be similar to DV and the footage will be transferrable with FireWire, however since the footage will be MPEG (or a mutant relative compression scheme) -compressed, all our standard DV tools, espcially hardware boards like the Storm etc., probably won't apply.

I've whispering to Canopus that PC-platform HD editing would be the next big market since 1998; that may finally come true in 2003/2004 fiscal year...

Chris Hurd · February 13th, 2003, 08:56 AM

So far, as best as I can describe it:

GR-HD1 is from the consumer division, list price of $3500 and has a built-in on-camera stereo mic.

JY-HD10 is from the professional division, list price of $4000 and has a dual-XLR mic adapter integrated into the camera's top handle (similar to Sony PD150, or Canon GL2 with MA300 attached).

Both the GR-HD1 and JY-HD10 share the same lens, CCD and optical image stabilization. The CCD is 1/3rd inch at 1.18 megapixels.

Thanks to Steve Mullen for his explanatory web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/HD1_HD10.htm

Chris Hurd · February 13th, 2003, 09:00 AM

According to Steve Mullen, JVC is providing four Windows XP apps for this camera system, one of them being MPEG Edit Studio Pro 1.0 LE. Developed by the R&D labs of Japan’s KDDI, Edit Studio Pro provides frame-accurate, non-linear editing of SD and HD MPEG-2 files.

More info at http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/HD1_HD10.htm -- sadly, it looks like no Mac compatability as of yet, but hopefully this will change in due course.

Steve Mullen · February 13th, 2003, 01:51 PM

Today at the Sony pre-NAB, Sony announced it will offer 3-chip NTSC and PAL Blue laser based camcorders. One camcorder will offer 25mbps DV recording while the other will offer 25Mbps DV plus up to 50Mbps MPEG-2 (IMX) recording.

They will use 12cm discs.

Obviously this technology makes it very easy to come to market with a range of products -- including an 8cm prosumer HD camcorder. Not clear when these might come. I would guess in Japan by mid-year -- so maybe CES 2004 in USA.

I would expect Panasonic to also market a camcorder for the Japanese market. Not sure if it wil be tape or DVD-RAM based. I would bet on DVD-RAM running at 15 to 18Mbps.

Ken Freed JVC · February 14th, 2003, 08:00 AM

Remember the prices you mention are your prices not ours.

I don't give a number for the pro piece since then it can come back to "bite" me.

Ken Freed JVC · February 14th, 2003, 08:04 AM

It will take time and the software NLE folks will want to see how many are sold.

I'm sure Apple will work it out.

Steve Mullen · February 14th, 2003, 01:09 PM

Earthlink suspended access to my site because of too many downloaded bytes.

So below you'll find a way to get to specific pages. Sorry for the confusion.

Joe Carney · February 15th, 2003, 11:10 AM

Why white, green, cyan, and yellow?
What advantage over RGB?
Thanks Steve

Steve Mullen · February 18th, 2003, 05:07 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Carney : Why white, green, cyan, and yellow?
What advantage over RGB?
Thanks Steve -->>>

The WGCY is the filter matrix JVC is using because it delivers high luma and chroma resolution.

A 4 sample window is moved, step-wise, accross all CCD columns -- then down one CCD row, and repeat. At each point, 1 Y sample and 1, each, RGB samples are generated.

So every CCD element yields a luma sample so you get full progressive resolution.

In short 1 chip acts like 3 chips in terms of luma -- and the sample chroma resolution of a 3 chipper is recorded.

Daniel Broadway · February 22nd, 2003, 02:46 PM

So, my man, Steve, does that mean you don't get the 4:1:1 compression of DV with this new camera? Or are you just saying you get a 3CCD picture with a single WGCY chip?

Francesco Marano · February 24th, 2003, 11:46 AM

the mpeg2 format have an structure like:

IBBBPBBBPBBB or
IBBPBBPBBPBB

in this case I think that is

IBBPBB

I ~ 55 % of data rate
B~ 6,5 % of data rate
P~ 19 % of data rate

I have about 55% of 18.2? Mbits = 10 Mbits (5 frame on 30)
so 1 I frame have about 2 Mbits
so 60 I frame are about 120 Mbits
the dvc pro 100 have 100 Mbits for 60 frame

so

the quality of an I Frame from mpeg2 hd is equal of a dvcpro hd Frame???

Bye Francesco

Francesco Marano · February 25th, 2003, 04:01 AM

the "new" format is an

dvcam or IMX record

on a optical (16GB?) disk!

18 GB = 90 Min * 60 Sec * 27-29 Mbits (Video + Audio +data?)

Frank Granovski · March 3rd, 2003, 01:15 AM

Which one's better?

Why MPEG2?

Robert Knecht Schmidt · March 3rd, 2003, 01:36 AM

Both compression schemes use interframe (temporal) and intraframe (spatial) compression. MPEG4 achieves transparency at a lower bit rate than does MPEG2, but MPEG4 is also more computationally expensive.

MPEG2, having been the DVD standard, is more widely and more stably supported by chipmakers. The principal reason for the high cost of DVD players in the years 1996-2000 was the unavailability of MPEG2 decoder chips. Now, an MPEG2 codec chip is relatively cheap and that's likely the reason why it would be favored over MPEG4 for a camcorder compression format.

Once 2.5G and 3G mobile phones become standardized, MPEG4 hardware compression solutions will become comparable to MPEG2 chips in price, as these new video-enabled mobile phones all have MPEG4 hardware codecs in them.

Ron Evans · March 5th, 2003, 11:25 AM

Does the new JVC HD camcorder have a wired zoom control ( like LANC or Panasonic control)?

ROn Evans

February 13th, 2003, 08:54 AM	#1
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Various posts concerning GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U I'd like to know what NLE options will be available for editing footage from these cameras. Since they'll be using MiniDV tapes, the bandwidth will probably be similar to DV and the footage will be transferrable with FireWire, however since the footage will be MPEG (or a mutant relative compression scheme) -compressed, all our standard DV tools, espcially hardware boards like the Storm etc., probably won't apply. I've whispering to Canopus that PC-platform HD editing would be the next big market since 1998; that may finally come true in 2003/2004 fiscal year... __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

February 13th, 2003, 08:56 AM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Difference between GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U So far, as best as I can describe it: GR-HD1 is from the consumer division, list price of $3500 and has a built-in on-camera stereo mic. JY-HD10 is from the professional division, list price of $4000 and has a dual-XLR mic adapter integrated into the camera's top handle (similar to Sony PD150, or Canon GL2 with MA300 attached). Both the GR-HD1 and JY-HD10 share the same lens, CCD and optical image stabilization. The CCD is 1/3rd inch at 1.18 megapixels. Thanks to Steve Mullen for his explanatory web page at http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/HD1_HD10.htm __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 13th, 2003, 09:00 AM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	According to Steve Mullen, JVC is providing four Windows XP apps for this camera system, one of them being MPEG Edit Studio Pro 1.0 LE. Developed by the R&D labs of Japan’s KDDI, Edit Studio Pro provides frame-accurate, non-linear editing of SD and HD MPEG-2 files. More info at http://www.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/HD1_HD10.htm -- sadly, it looks like no Mac compatability as of yet, but hopefully this will change in due course. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 13th, 2003, 01:51 PM	#4
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Sony HD camcorder in the works Today at the Sony pre-NAB, Sony announced it will offer 3-chip NTSC and PAL Blue laser based camcorders. One camcorder will offer 25mbps DV recording while the other will offer 25Mbps DV plus up to 50Mbps MPEG-2 (IMX) recording. They will use 12cm discs. Obviously this technology makes it very easy to come to market with a range of products -- including an 8cm prosumer HD camcorder. Not clear when these might come. I would guess in Japan by mid-year -- so maybe CES 2004 in USA. I would expect Panasonic to also market a camcorder for the Japanese market. Not sure if it wil be tape or DVD-RAM based. I would bet on DVD-RAM running at 15 to 18Mbps. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

February 14th, 2003, 08:00 AM	#5
Ken Freed JVC JVC Regional Sales Engineer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wayne, NJ Posts: 49	Your prices Remember the prices you mention are your prices not ours. I don't give a number for the pro piece since then it can come back to "bite" me. __________________ Ken Freed JVC Mid-Atlantic District Sales Manager (201) 637-7706 kfreed@jvc.com

February 14th, 2003, 08:04 AM	#6
Ken Freed JVC JVC Regional Sales Engineer Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wayne, NJ Posts: 49	Yes there will be more It will take time and the software NLE folks will want to see how many are sold. I'm sure Apple will work it out. __________________ Ken Freed JVC Mid-Atlantic District Sales Manager (201) 637-7706 kfreed@jvc.com

February 14th, 2003, 01:09 PM	#7
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	New Site for JVC HD Camcorder Earthlink suspended access to my site because of too many downloaded bytes. So below you'll find a way to get to specific pages. Sorry for the confusion. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

February 15th, 2003, 11:10 AM	#8
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	color matrix of this new cam Why white, green, cyan, and yellow? What advantage over RGB? Thanks Steve

February 18th, 2003, 05:07 PM	#9
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Re: color matrix of this new cam <<<-- Originally posted by Joe Carney : Why white, green, cyan, and yellow? What advantage over RGB? Thanks Steve -->>> The WGCY is the filter matrix JVC is using because it delivers high luma and chroma resolution. A 4 sample window is moved, step-wise, accross all CCD columns -- then down one CCD row, and repeat. At each point, 1 Y sample and 1, each, RGB samples are generated. So every CCD element yields a luma sample so you get full progressive resolution. In short 1 chip acts like 3 chips in terms of luma -- and the sample chroma resolution of a 3 chipper is recorded. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

February 22nd, 2003, 02:46 PM	#10
Daniel Broadway Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 165	So, my man, Steve, does that mean you don't get the 4:1:1 compression of DV with this new camera? Or are you just saying you get a 3CCD picture with a single WGCY chip?

February 24th, 2003, 11:46 AM	#11
Francesco Marano Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Italy Milan Posts: 59	I frame compression the mpeg2 format have an structure like: IBBBPBBBPBBB or IBBPBBPBBPBB in this case I think that is IBBPBB I ~ 55 % of data rate B~ 6,5 % of data rate P~ 19 % of data rate I have about 55% of 18.2? Mbits = 10 Mbits (5 frame on 30) so 1 I frame have about 2 Mbits so 60 I frame are about 120 Mbits the dvc pro 100 have 100 Mbits for 60 frame so the quality of an I Frame from mpeg2 hd is equal of a dvcpro hd Frame??? Bye Francesco

February 25th, 2003, 04:01 AM	#12
Francesco Marano Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Italy Milan Posts: 59	Is SD not HD the "new" format is an dvcam or IMX record on a optical (16GB?) disk! 18 GB = 90 Min * 60 Sec * 27-29 Mbits (Video + Audio +data?)

March 3rd, 2003, 01:15 AM	#13
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	MPEG2 verses MPEG4 Which one's better? Why MPEG2?

March 3rd, 2003, 01:36 AM	#14
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	MPEG4's better, more expensive Both compression schemes use interframe (temporal) and intraframe (spatial) compression. MPEG4 achieves transparency at a lower bit rate than does MPEG2, but MPEG4 is also more computationally expensive. MPEG2, having been the DVD standard, is more widely and more stably supported by chipmakers. The principal reason for the high cost of DVD players in the years 1996-2000 was the unavailability of MPEG2 decoder chips. Now, an MPEG2 codec chip is relatively cheap and that's likely the reason why it would be favored over MPEG4 for a camcorder compression format. Once 2.5G and 3G mobile phones become standardized, MPEG4 hardware compression solutions will become comparable to MPEG2 chips in price, as these new video-enabled mobile phones all have MPEG4 hardware codecs in them. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 5th, 2003, 11:25 AM	#15
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Zoom control Does the new JVC HD camcorder have a wired zoom control ( like LANC or Panasonic control)? ROn Evans