Various posts concerning GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U

[Chris Hurd]

Ron

It does not have a LANC jack or any other auxiliary control interface that I can see.

[Steve Mullen]

After studying the CCD more, I've updated my site.

Also added a section on the new Sony Blu-Ray DVD recorder which has an i.LINK connector that inputs MPEG-2-TS data.

Enjoy.

[Frank Granovski]

Looks like the new Japanese Domestic GR-DV5000U is called the GR-DV4000U instead, for the North/Central/South American markets. Also, the GR-DV3500 has skipped the North American market altogether! Go figure.

http://www.jvc.ca/en/consumer/produc...del=GR-DV4000U

[Frank Granovski]

This new model is about 1/3 the price of the JY-HD10U, but yet it has a much better lens, and uses MPEG4 instead of the older MPEG2. Okay, okay, it isn't HD, but is the JY-HD10U really HD?

[Frank Granovski]

The older GR-DV3000U and GR-DV3500U have a 1/3.6" CCD. The new GR-DV5000U (Japanese Domestic) and GR-DV4000U (North American stripped down version of the GR-DV5000U), has only a 1/4" CCD. All these cams cams share the same 690K video effective CCD pixels though.

Alan has already noticed something, he writes:

"The DV5000 has mic input and better minimum lux rating (6 lux) than DV3000. Ooopss, one difference found already. The DV5000 has a higher resolution 3.5" LCD (240K)..perhaps the reason why the US version is called DV4000."

[Steve Mullen]

Contrary to my earlier belief, the JVC will not shoot in 16:9 when in DV mode. Nor does it have a letterbox FX.

[Joseph George]

HD categories by Mbps Transfer rates:

1. HDTV 720/30p 10 Mbps MPEG2; red laser HD DVD – under 10 Mbps MPEG4

2. HD DV 720/30p 19 Mbps MPEG2. Blue laser HD DVD and DVHS have transfer rates around 26 Mbps and are also MPEG2. This category is all 4:1:1

3. Varicam 720/30p 50 Mbps. Varicam records 720/60p with 100 Mbps but for 720/30p the transfer rate becomes 50 Mbps. This format is 4:2:2

4. CineAlta 185 Mbps

5. CineAlta SR 440 Mbps, D5 375 Mbps

6. Thomson Viper 1,350 Mbps

Category #2 is the most interesting one. This is the category that will replace DV (25 Mbps) and DVD (8 Mbps MPEG2) -- just like DV replaced Hi8. This transformation is beginning to happen right now in the semipro/pro market. The manufacturers are trying to do it quietly so SD sales will not be hurt. The quality of the picture of products in this category falls somewhere between HDTV and Varicam. It is certainly sufficient to produce HDTV content, just as DV is sufficient to produce SDTV content.

The initial products will not be 24p. 30p is OK for NTSC countries and it appears that it may be OK for Europe also. The HDTV broadcast that will start there will apparently be 30p or 60i and the SD equipment sold there appears to be made to work with NTSC also -- VCRs, TVs. The HDTV monitors sold there, per Philips website, do work with 60i and 30p. It appears that the main reason for inclusion of NTSC in their products is because of VHS tapes, etc. that come from the US do not have to be slowed down to 50i.

30p approximates film motion artifacts better than 24p converted to 30p. So if you're after that look, 30p is an advantage, not a shortcoming. If you'd like to show your indie film at festivals, they all have 30p digital projectors; so does an ever increasing number of art houses (movie theaters).

The transition from SD to HD is accelerating fast. First HD DV camcorder will be available in the US in May. First blue laser HD DVD recorder will go on sale in Japan next month. There will be other products available this year. This will allow you to shoot soon HD content inexpensively. That content will not be obsolete in a few years. If you'll shoot in SD, your content will be dated.

Joseph George
Studio HD

[Frank Granovski]

Thanks again Joseph. I enjoyed reading your post.

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Joseph George : HD categories by Mbps Transfer rates:

2. HD DV 720/30p 19 Mbps MPEG2. Blue laser HD DVD and DVHS have transfer rates around 26 Mbps and are also MPEG2. This category is all 4:1:1 -->>>

These are all 4:2:0 MPEG-2 formats wrapped in a Transport Team wrapper.

[Joseph George]

CAMERA RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A BASIC VIDEO PRODUCTION CLASS – SECONDARY EDUCATIONAL LEVEL

For SD I recommend Sony PD150 or Sony PDX10. The PDX10 has a native 16:9 resolving chip, so in this aspect ratio it will give you significantly better resolution. It was reviewed by Cinematographer and the reviewer liked the picture better than on PD150.

PD150 is around $3K and PDX10 is around $2.5K, I believe; so you'll be able to buy 2 cameras for $5K. PDX10 is rated 7 Lux. PD150 is rated 2 Lux.

You may also want to wait till May for JVC HD10, which is high definition, but needs a lot more light -- is rated 35 Lux and will cost $4000; the consumer version with lower quality mike / mike jacks / handle, but otherwise identical, will cost $3500.

10 lux is about 1 footcandle. Classrooms are usually lit to about 50 FC, which is about 500 Lux so with that amount of lighting the JVC camera should produce superior pictures compared to both of the Sonys.

Unless you'll want to use the camera for documentary work in low-lighted spaces, without additional lighting, which I don't believe is your case, the camera has sufficient low light capability.

Panasonic DVX100 is rated 3 Lux but in its progressive mode this rating becones 24 Lux, because of no gain up. So 35 Lux is not that unreasonable.

With the JVC you'll need proprietary editing software (a few hundred dollars) and HD monitor that you'll be able to pick up at Costco, on sale at Frys, or somewhere for around $1000. You'll also need JVC DVHS deck -- about $700.

In the future you may want to add a blue laser HD DVD recorder or burner. These will be available this year. Sony and Nishia are already mass-producing the HD DVD mechanisms for other companies. Nishia sells these to others for $42 in volume, to use in their products. To be able to get this price the buyer must buy 100,000 mechanisms a month.

The JVC camcorder is currently sold only in Japan and only 1000 units are produced each month. There will be other low cost HD camcorders available this year.

There will be about 7.5 millions HDTV ready sets in US homes by the end of the year. Since HD is the future, I'm sure that your students and their future employers would appreciate that they trained in HD. The JVC camcorders can also shoot in SD.

These are your best bets, in my opinion. All these cameras are easy to operate and have enough manual controls when needed.

There will also be low cost red laser HD DVD products available this year. These are MPEG4 based and the transfer rate is only about 7 Mbps. Toshiba has been pushing these hard to the Hollywood studios and the studios like these better than the higher quality Sony blue laser HD DVD products.

Because of Toshiba strong lobbying efforts and because Sony is likely to obey the Hollywood studio cartel recommendations, because it owns Columbia Pictures, when HD DVDs replace DVDs in rental places, these may be the red laser based ones.

Thank you Toshiba. If you're successful your game, I will not buy your products.

Here is excellent, about 40 pages long info on the red laser HD DVD format:

http://www.screendigest.com/NSMH-5CAAWM/Avignon-112802-final%20-%20Yamada.pdf

Joseph George
Studio HD

[Steve Mullen]

<<<-- Originally posted by Joseph George : CAMERA RECOMMENDATIONS FOR A BASIC VIDEO PRODUCTION CLASS ? SECONDARY EDUCATIONAL LEVEL


With the JVC you'll need proprietary editing software (a few hundred dollars) and HD monitor that you'll be able to pick up at Costco, on sale at Frys, or somewhere for around $1000. You'll also need JVC DVHS deck -- about $700. -->>>


The software is supplied.

[Joseph George]

The JVC has a transfer rate 19 Mbps at 720/30p. The $63,000 Panasonic Varicam has an effective rate of 50 Mbps at 720/30p. Add a low cost HD zoom lens to the Varicam and you’ll end up with $80K. So the JVC is $4,000 with 19 Mbps stream, the Panasonic is $80K with 50K stream. You’ll pay 20x more for same 720/30p, but at 2.5x the rate. The JVC is definitely a lot better bargain. No comparison.

Here is some more info on the subject.

Although the Varicam does record 100 Mbps at 60p, the effective data rate is only 40 Mbps at 24p and 50Mbps at 30p. 4:2:2 SD systems are 50 Mbps.

The claims that Varicam has less compressed color than CineAlta because it is 4:2:2 and CineAlta is 3:1:1 is incorrect. For example at 30p CineAlta data rate is 185 Mbps and Varicam is 50 Mbps. CineAlta has 3.7x higher transfer rate and 2.25x more pixels. It translates to a simple fact; its chroma (color) is less compressed on CineAlta; its luminance is a lot less compressed.

Is Varicam a better bargain than CineAlta? Let’s assume you are able to negotiate very good discount on both – 50K and 80K. Add $40K for lens(es). It becomes 90K vs. 120K. Add other production expenses. The % difference becomes very small. Does Varicam still look like a bargain?

How important are 3 CCDs on 4:1:1 system. Considering that only 33% of the stream is devoted to chroma, 1 CCD will work fine.

Is 3 CCD system 3x more light sensitive than 1 CCD system? No. The difference in sensitivity is minimal. Why? On a 3 CCD system you need to split the light in 3 beams, each CCD gets only fraction of the light.

Joseph George
Studio HD

[Charles Papert]

<<<-- Originally posted by Joseph George : You’ll pay 20x more for same 720/30p, but at 2.5x the rate. The JVC is definitely a lot better bargain. No comparison.>>

No comparison in the image quality also. That "same" 720/30p is apples and oranges.

The XL1 records NTSC 60i, as does the Sony DVW 790WS Digibeta. They too have a radical difference in price, but no-one claims the XL1 is in the same league in terms of picture quality...?

[Lynne Whelden]

Joseph--Your posts are much appreciated. Not many folks have any experience with HD gear so your perspective is invaluable. Thanks! Ever since taking a 16mm production course in college 28 years ago I've been waiting for HD and having to hold my nose with 3/4" U-matic, then hi-8mm and finally DV video gear. I was afraid everyone was being lulled to sleep with DV. I am so happy that JVC has shocked the world awake again with their H10 camcorder.

[Heath McKnight]

From NAB:

I read this at the 2-pop.com site:

"And the high-def prosumer HD10. The HD10 presentation was a little puzzling, they didn't have any decent demo footage from the unit at all, just some handheld walking-around-the-strip handycam-looking footage with flat colors. Definitely not impressive, they should have done much better. They did have a "JVC Cafe" camera test area, with the HD10 set up next to a 3-CCD hi-def camera, which was probably a mistake on their part because the side-by-side monitors showed how vast the gap is between "consumer" HD and "real" HD." - journey man

Go to this link for more:

http://www.2-pop.com/ubbthreads/show...5&o=14&fpart=1

Also, they say its a 35 lux camera (!), but didn't indicate if that was in all modes or just HD. I'm assuming just HD. That's terrible!

(Plus, someone claimed to see an XL-2 with 680,000 pixels per ccd and 24P. Does that make it a near 2 megapixel camera, or just a working-in-tandem 680,000 pixel camera?).

My experience trying to buy an HM-DH30000:

Circuit City and Sears didn't have one (except Demo) in any store from Ft. Lauderdale to North Palm Beach, FL. Nor did their warehouses. They claimed they could get it in a week. Best buy was the same thing, except the girl went further by doing a huge check. All stores said it was special order, nope. The Best Buy girl said the last time she was this puzzled (why couldn't she order it at all, and she doubted Sears and CCity could order it either) over a "missing product," they found out the manufacturer had problems and left it on the shelf while repairing the actual sale item. It looks bad when you pull the display model, apparently.

So, in conclusion, I would say we're still a year to a year-and-a-half off from good mini-HD. XL-2 (if HD) or Sony HD by NAB 2004.

heath

This is my theory.