Various posts concerning GR-HD1U and JY-HD10U

Darren Kelly · September 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM

I've read some messages about the camera loosing a pixel in transit. Air shipment seems to do it from what I read. On the other hand, it could also be a pixel missing on your viewfinder, and not on the camera.

The good thing is B&H is great about exchange and returns

DBK

Heath McKnight · September 15th, 2003, 01:08 PM

I needed to shoot a little something extra for my DVD's documentary (audio only), so I busted out the HD10 and aimed it at my face (so I knew which take to use--so much for a raw interview; I had something specific today). I had the camera low (and in DV mode, also fully automatic) and aimed up. The ceiling fan was behind my head and I did my thing.

When I played it back, the fan looked like it was almost standing still (off), yet there was a slight blur. Not sure what shutter speed I had on...And though it was cool-looking, not something I'd want to repeat in a possible film. Any ideas what happened and how to fix it?

heath

Eric Bilodeau · September 15th, 2003, 04:19 PM

It is because of the speed of your fan and the speed of your shutter. let's say you have a 3 pal fan turning at 10 revolutions a minutes straight, with a 1/30th shutter you would not see the pals moving because each 30th of a second, the fan makes 1/3 of a turn so you end up seeing the fan still because there are 3 pals so each 1/3 revolution the next pal is at the same place as the preceding one. You can have a lot of fun with a fan and a dimmer in video. Back a few years from now I experimented quite a bit with that... you can see it go forward, than change the speed and it looks as if it goes backwards. A good example of that is shooting cars on either side, when the car starts or stops, the wheel looks like its going forward, then backwards, it always look pretty weird, it does that even with the human eye.

Of course, once shot you cannot fix it.

Heath McKnight · September 15th, 2003, 04:21 PM

yeah, it looked like it was moving both fast and slow forward, then backwards. Just like a tire/rim on a car. (Of course, now rims move automatically on some of these "pimp-mobiles," and it's just another attempt to screw with our heads.)

heath

Steve Mullen · September 16th, 2003, 01:07 AM

Posted on Mon, Sep. 15, 2003
Europe's First HD Channel Gets Trial Run
DOUGLAS HEINGARTNER
Associated Press

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Europe's first high-definition television channel went on the air over the weekend with a trial broadcast of music and sports programming. Only next year is the technology set to go mainstream.

Europe's shift to the sharper images and clearer sound of high-definition TV is moving much slower than in the United States, where several million HDTV sets are already in use.

While the U.S. government has mandated a switch from analog to digital TV signals, which make high-definition broadcasts possible, Europe has yet to enact such rules.

The new HDTV channel, Euro 1080, broadcast live coverage Saturday from the World Athletics Final in Monaco and the "Night of The Proms" concert in London to an audience of journalists and TV executives in Amsterdam.

The official launch of the channel, owned by the Belgian company Alfacam, is slated for January. The name Euro 1080 refers to the number of lines in the image, double the quality of "low-definition" regular TV.

Viewers will receive four to five hours of daily programing, ranging from the Euro 2004 soccer championships to Vienna's annual New Year's concert.

The broadcasts will be free, but the equipment certainly won't.

While the quality is undoubtedly superior, viewers must purchase a new television set, ranging from $1,800 to $4,000, and a set-top box receiver costing up to $550.

Although the prices have been dropping about 15 percent each quarter, it's unclear whether the cost is low enough to attract Europe's 380 million television viewers. So far, HDTV sets haven't sold well, mainly "because there's no content," said Euro 1080's technical manager, Jacques Schepers.

Industry analyst Vamsi Sistla of Allied Business Intelligence described the dilemma as "a classic chicken-and-egg problem."

"If you don't have the content, people aren't going to fork out a few grand for the set," he said. So, while broadcasters wait for viewers to buy sets, viewers wait for content, which is more costly when shot in high definition.

In the United States, about 2.5 million digital TV sets - most were HDTV-equipped - were sold last year, and the average retail price dropped to $1,688 from $3,147 in 1998, when only a few thousand were purchased, according to the Consumer Electronics Association. No figures were available for European sales.

Part of the reason for the greater U.S. popularity is cheaper sets, and most major American broadcasters, such as HBO and ESPN, offer considerable high-definition programming, a trend echoed in Japan, Korea and Australia.

The fragmented European broadcast market and linguistic diversity have been largely to blame for the slow growth.

Euro 1080 will initially serve 30 countries with programs of minimal spoken content that easily cross borders, such as music and sports. A second channel will broadcast to movie theaters or sports bars where audiences can watch the Olympics or a Rolling Stones concert.

Euro 1080 produces 10 to 12 high-definition programs per month, and plans to supplement those offering with programs from the United States and Japan.

The channel still has some hurdles to clear. Sistla, the analyst, estimates that cable TV companies need to spend about $1,000 per subscriber to upgrade their equipment for HDTV -- costs the European cable industry cannot afford.

Kevin A. Sturges · September 21st, 2003, 10:56 AM

I checked, but didn't find this covered in here yet, sorry if it has: I just found this link:

http://www.royalcamera.com/jvcjyhhigdef.html

I called and apparantly it's true - Royal camera has the HD10U in stock and they are selling the Japanese menu version for $2'349. They also have the English version for 2'800....something. Is this too good to be true? I know the prices are starting to come down now. They said it's a new camera sealed in the box - no extras.

Is there a translation available for the Japanese model? I know a lot of Americans buy Japanese import cams, and don't have a problem desifering the menus.

Darren Kelly · September 21st, 2003, 01:13 PM

Kevin,

It's always available at Royal, but you will never actually get it.

They will insist on selling you overpriced accessories that are standard with the camera, like the battery, power supply and cables. If you hold your ground it will suddenly become out of stock.

To make a long story short, you will not get it for $2349.00.

Cheers

DBK

Jeff Donald · September 21st, 2003, 01:21 PM

Please try to support our Sponsors, that help make these forums available and with not ads, pop-ups etc. Zotz will give you an honest, fair and competitive price (don't forget to mention you're a member here). Thanks for your help.

Steven Galvano · September 22nd, 2003, 07:47 AM

Why does the HD10's footage look so much better than SD footage when downconverted and viewed on a NTSC monitor?.

Probably the same reason 35mm film looks so good on VHS.

Also- What media do you guys recommend? B&H suggested JVC's standard DV tapes (3.49/ea).

Thanks!

Steven

Christopher C. Murphy · September 22nd, 2003, 08:22 AM

The basic logic is:

When you start with a lot more information (pixels, resolution etc.) - your computer has the opportunity to come up with a better final version.

If you shoot on VHS and make a VHS dub it's going to look crappy because the resolution is low to begin with. If you shoot 35mm film with such high resolution and transfer it to a computer at VHS quality - it's going to look pretty good. Even though it's a low quality version - it still had TONS of informaiton to "encode" the best possible flow of information.

When you see on a DVD that says "remastered from a high-definition source tapes" - it does matter. The higher definition source material you use - the better "encode" your're going to get.

Although, it also depends on the encoder doing the work too. I've seen people butcher things that could have been beautiful!

Hope this helps in some way. If you'd like more information - just go to Google and type "encoding video" and "source material".

Chris

Eric Bilodeau · September 22nd, 2003, 09:22 AM

Good point Chris.

I would also add the following: In SD cameras there are many chips with different sizes/definition. A camera with a 1/3 chipset having 270 000 pixels of resolution like the XL1(s) will have to "upconvert" to get true 720X480 (345 600 pixels), compare the image to a camera witch has a 2/3 - 510 000 pixels chipset and it is easy to tell the difference in sharpness between the two. The better the original definition, the better the final image, even in the same format. Imagine when the original format is of higher quality (definition)...

John Eriksson · September 24th, 2003, 06:39 PM

Can somone answer 3 questions?

1.Is the JY-HD10E fully supported with Aspect HD?

2.Does the JY-HD10E record PAL on any mode HD/SD/DV?

3.Does it output a PAL signal from the S-VHS and the compoite port?

..Or is that also NTSC, what is the diffirance with JY-HD10E and JY HD10U?

Thanks!

David Newman · September 24th, 2003, 06:54 PM

The JY-HD10U and the JY-HD10E are the same camera. It has no PAL mode. It is compatible with Aspect HD.

This site lists its specs.
http://www.provis.com.au/products/video/jy_hd10e.htm

Steve Mullen · September 24th, 2003, 08:31 PM

JVC GR-PD1 for thePAL world

Digital Full Progressive Video Camera

• 1/3-inch 1.18 Megapixel Progressive Scan CCD with Hybrid Complementary-Primary Digital Filter

• Hi-Def F1.8-F1.9 Optically Stabilised Zoom Lens

• MPEG-2 Recording on MiniDV Cassette

• Multi-Format Recording and Playback:

* DV PAL Interlace: 4:3 625/50i

* MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 16:9 625/50p

* MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 16:9 625/25p

* MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 4:3 625/50p

John Eriksson · September 24th, 2003, 11:54 PM

yes, I have heard of this, but there is no HD on that one.. thanks anyways..

September 15th, 2003, 01:08 PM	#137
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Any ideas about this I needed to shoot a little something extra for my DVD's documentary (audio only), so I busted out the HD10 and aimed it at my face (so I knew which take to use--so much for a raw interview; I had something specific today). I had the camera low (and in DV mode, also fully automatic) and aimed up. The ceiling fan was behind my head and I did my thing. When I played it back, the fan looked like it was almost standing still (off), yet there was a slight blur. Not sure what shutter speed I had on...And though it was cool-looking, not something I'd want to repeat in a possible film. Any ideas what happened and how to fix it? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 15th, 2003, 04:19 PM	#138
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	It is because of the speed of your fan and the speed of your shutter. let's say you have a 3 pal fan turning at 10 revolutions a minutes straight, with a 1/30th shutter you would not see the pals moving because each 30th of a second, the fan makes 1/3 of a turn so you end up seeing the fan still because there are 3 pals so each 1/3 revolution the next pal is at the same place as the preceding one. You can have a lot of fun with a fan and a dimmer in video. Back a few years from now I experimented quite a bit with that... you can see it go forward, than change the speed and it looks as if it goes backwards. A good example of that is shooting cars on either side, when the car starts or stops, the wheel looks like its going forward, then backwards, it always look pretty weird, it does that even with the human eye. Of course, once shot you cannot fix it. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

September 15th, 2003, 04:21 PM	#139
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	yeah, it looked like it was moving both fast and slow forward, then backwards. Just like a tire/rim on a car. (Of course, now rims move automatically on some of these "pimp-mobiles," and it's just another attempt to screw with our heads.) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 16th, 2003, 01:07 AM	#140
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	Euro Hdtv Posted on Mon, Sep. 15, 2003 Europe's First HD Channel Gets Trial Run DOUGLAS HEINGARTNER Associated Press AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Europe's first high-definition television channel went on the air over the weekend with a trial broadcast of music and sports programming. Only next year is the technology set to go mainstream. Europe's shift to the sharper images and clearer sound of high-definition TV is moving much slower than in the United States, where several million HDTV sets are already in use. While the U.S. government has mandated a switch from analog to digital TV signals, which make high-definition broadcasts possible, Europe has yet to enact such rules. The new HDTV channel, Euro 1080, broadcast live coverage Saturday from the World Athletics Final in Monaco and the "Night of The Proms" concert in London to an audience of journalists and TV executives in Amsterdam. The official launch of the channel, owned by the Belgian company Alfacam, is slated for January. The name Euro 1080 refers to the number of lines in the image, double the quality of "low-definition" regular TV. Viewers will receive four to five hours of daily programing, ranging from the Euro 2004 soccer championships to Vienna's annual New Year's concert. The broadcasts will be free, but the equipment certainly won't. While the quality is undoubtedly superior, viewers must purchase a new television set, ranging from $1,800 to $4,000, and a set-top box receiver costing up to $550. Although the prices have been dropping about 15 percent each quarter, it's unclear whether the cost is low enough to attract Europe's 380 million television viewers. So far, HDTV sets haven't sold well, mainly "because there's no content," said Euro 1080's technical manager, Jacques Schepers. Industry analyst Vamsi Sistla of Allied Business Intelligence described the dilemma as "a classic chicken-and-egg problem." "If you don't have the content, people aren't going to fork out a few grand for the set," he said. So, while broadcasters wait for viewers to buy sets, viewers wait for content, which is more costly when shot in high definition. In the United States, about 2.5 million digital TV sets - most were HDTV-equipped - were sold last year, and the average retail price dropped to $1,688 from $3,147 in 1998, when only a few thousand were purchased, according to the Consumer Electronics Association. No figures were available for European sales. Part of the reason for the greater U.S. popularity is cheaper sets, and most major American broadcasters, such as HBO and ESPN, offer considerable high-definition programming, a trend echoed in Japan, Korea and Australia. The fragmented European broadcast market and linguistic diversity have been largely to blame for the slow growth. Euro 1080 will initially serve 30 countries with programs of minimal spoken content that easily cross borders, such as music and sports. A second channel will broadcast to movie theaters or sports bars where audiences can watch the Olympics or a Rolling Stones concert. Euro 1080 produces 10 to 12 high-definition programs per month, and plans to supplement those offering with programs from the United States and Japan. The channel still has some hurdles to clear. Sistla, the analyst, estimates that cable TV companies need to spend about $1,000 per subscriber to upgrade their equipment for HDTV -- costs the European cable industry cannot afford. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 21st, 2003, 10:56 AM	#141
Kevin A. Sturges Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 167	Legitimate Prices For HD10U? I checked, but didn't find this covered in here yet, sorry if it has: I just found this link: http://www.royalcamera.com/jvcjyhhigdef.html I called and apparantly it's true - Royal camera has the HD10U in stock and they are selling the Japanese menu version for $2'349. They also have the English version for 2'800....something. Is this too good to be true? I know the prices are starting to come down now. They said it's a new camera sealed in the box - no extras. Is there a translation available for the Japanese model? I know a lot of Americans buy Japanese import cams, and don't have a problem desifering the menus.

September 13th, 2003, 06:28 PM	#136
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	I've read some messages about the camera loosing a pixel in transit. Air shipment seems to do it from what I read. On the other hand, it could also be a pixel missing on your viewfinder, and not on the camera. The good thing is B&H is great about exchange and returns DBK

September 21st, 2003, 01:13 PM	#142
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	Kevin, It's always available at Royal, but you will never actually get it. They will insist on selling you overpriced accessories that are standard with the camera, like the battery, power supply and cables. If you hold your ground it will suddenly become out of stock. To make a long story short, you will not get it for $2349.00. Cheers DBK

September 21st, 2003, 01:21 PM	#143
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Please try to support our Sponsors, that help make these forums available and with not ads, pop-ups etc. Zotz will give you an honest, fair and competitive price (don't forget to mention you're a member here). Thanks for your help. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 22nd, 2003, 07:47 AM	#144
Steven Galvano Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 109	Can someone tell me-- Why does the HD10's footage look so much better than SD footage when downconverted and viewed on a NTSC monitor?. Probably the same reason 35mm film looks so good on VHS. Also- What media do you guys recommend? B&H suggested JVC's standard DV tapes (3.49/ea). Thanks! Steven

September 22nd, 2003, 08:22 AM	#145
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	The basic logic is: When you start with a lot more information (pixels, resolution etc.) - your computer has the opportunity to come up with a better final version. If you shoot on VHS and make a VHS dub it's going to look crappy because the resolution is low to begin with. If you shoot 35mm film with such high resolution and transfer it to a computer at VHS quality - it's going to look pretty good. Even though it's a low quality version - it still had TONS of informaiton to "encode" the best possible flow of information. When you see on a DVD that says "remastered from a high-definition source tapes" - it does matter. The higher definition source material you use - the better "encode" your're going to get. Although, it also depends on the encoder doing the work too. I've seen people butcher things that could have been beautiful! Hope this helps in some way. If you'd like more information - just go to Google and type "encoding video" and "source material". Chris

September 22nd, 2003, 09:22 AM	#146
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Good point Chris. I would also add the following: In SD cameras there are many chips with different sizes/definition. A camera with a 1/3 chipset having 270 000 pixels of resolution like the XL1(s) will have to "upconvert" to get true 720X480 (345 600 pixels), compare the image to a camera witch has a 2/3 - 510 000 pixels chipset and it is easy to tell the difference in sharpness between the two. The better the original definition, the better the final image, even in the same format. Imagine when the original format is of higher quality (definition)... __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

September 24th, 2003, 06:39 PM	#147
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	Can somone answer 3 questions? Can somone answer 3 questions? 1.Is the JY-HD10E fully supported with Aspect HD? 2.Does the JY-HD10E record PAL on any mode HD/SD/DV? 3.Does it output a PAL signal from the S-VHS and the compoite port? ..Or is that also NTSC, what is the diffirance with JY-HD10E and JY HD10U? Thanks!

September 24th, 2003, 06:54 PM	#148
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	The JY-HD10U and the JY-HD10E are the same camera. It has no PAL mode. It is compatible with Aspect HD. This site lists its specs. http://www.provis.com.au/products/video/jy_hd10e.htm

September 24th, 2003, 08:31 PM	#149
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	JVC GR-PD1 for thePAL world Digital Full Progressive Video Camera • 1/3-inch 1.18 Megapixel Progressive Scan CCD with Hybrid Complementary-Primary Digital Filter • Hi-Def F1.8-F1.9 Optically Stabilised Zoom Lens • MPEG-2 Recording on MiniDV Cassette • Multi-Format Recording and Playback: * DV PAL Interlace: 4:3 625/50i * MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 16:9 625/50p * MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 16:9 625/25p * MPEG-2 PAL Progressive: 4:3 625/50p __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c

September 24th, 2003, 11:54 PM	#150
John Eriksson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 57	jepp. yes, I have heard of this, but there is no HD on that one.. thanks anyways..