When is the new HD1 replacement at DVinfo.net

Wayne Morellini · June 9th, 2005, 08:46 AM

I heard the new HD1 replacement was to be announced around now, but nothing has come up, anybody know anything?

Thanks

Radek Svoboda · June 10th, 2005, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

I heard the new HD1 replacement was to be announced around now, but nothing has come up, anybody know anything?

Thanks

How about Sony HDR-HC1 / HVR-A1 as replacement? If JVC had replacement planned, with new Sony announcement, they may have lot of tweeking to do before they bring to market, like adding 60p. It is consumer camera, you can't expect consumers to pan at certain speed. JVC portion of HDV spec includes 720p60 at 19 Mbps, with GOP 6. That will be quite task.

Radek

Wayne Morellini · June 10th, 2005, 11:42 AM

There are a number of cameras that could have been introduced a year or year and half ago, so they have had plenty of time for tweaking. The issue with consumer cameras, is which has the best compromise you can live with, so I am waiting to see what they introduce, even $1000-$1500 in comparison. I am not happy with the interlace stuff on the Sony's.

Look forward to better one chip, maybe even another three chip model. If it comes down to $3.5K Pro Sony Single chip, or $3K 3 chip JVC with uncompressed out, then the choice would be interesting.

I have heard reports that the 720p has less movement artifacts than 1080i Sony's. As I am interested in uncompressed out, it doesn't matter so much.

Thanks

Radek Svoboda · June 11th, 2005, 10:41 AM

Deinterlace 1080i with best software, get half decent 1080p and excellent 720p.

Radek

Wayne Morellini · June 11th, 2005, 11:18 AM

Still, on friendly terms with local State PRO JVC distributor. I am not totally in favour of de-interlacing, and have other reasons for avoiding interlace. So, will ultimately come down to competition and capturing possibilities. Of course if everybody converted to digital cinema tomorrow, it would matter even less. Still waiting for hands on testing of the component on all models.

Wayne.

Ken Hodson · June 12th, 2005, 02:56 PM

Radek -"JVC portion of HDV spec includes 720p60 at 19 Mbps, with GOP 6."

Where do you get that info from? I have never seen any info like that. The 480p60 mode of the JVC cams uses a 12GOP, so I don't know how you figure double the rez and half the GOP. Not likely.

Radek Svoboda · June 12th, 2005, 04:40 PM

Ken,

Where did you get GOP of 12? I understood JVC's HDV is GOP 6. Resolution is the same at 30p and 60p.

Radek

Ken Hodson · June 12th, 2005, 05:31 PM

Had a quick search on this forum and found this thread where David Newman of Cineform outlines the GOP's. I would guess JVC's site also should have info as well. The GOP structure is essentialy the same as double the GOP and double the frames works out to the same GOP-per-second either way.

Radek Svoboda · June 13th, 2005, 04:28 AM

Ken,

Just because you double frame rate does not mean you double GOP. I could not find anywhere anything than GOP 6.

Radek

Ken Hodson · June 13th, 2005, 02:01 PM

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ghlight=12+gop

Well Radek, in this case it does ;>)
Here is the link I forgot to include. The GOP structure is common knowledge to those familiar with the cam. All of the specs were talked about inside and out when the cam was new and this forum was blazing.

Radek Svoboda · June 13th, 2005, 02:30 PM

Ken,

there used to be HDV Organization chart and I'm pretty sure was GOP 6, but I could be wrong. HD1/10 has GOP 12 but only at 480p60; there is no 720p60 on HD1/10.

Radek

Ken Hodson · June 13th, 2005, 04:31 PM

"but I could be wrong"

Ya, your wrong.

"there is no 720p60 on HD1/10."

Common knowledge. Who ever said there was?

Radek Svoboda · June 13th, 2005, 09:57 PM

http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/ HDV uses long-GOP MPEG2 for video, with a 6-frame GOP for 720p and 12 to 15-frame GOP for 1080i.

Sorry, you're wrong and I never said HD1 is 60p.

I'm done, hate repeat myself.

Radek

Ken Hodson · June 13th, 2005, 11:27 PM

Radek I don't know if it is a language barrier or what, but there seems to be some form of lack of communication here.
I don't know what you are pointing out with your link, but I see no info on the 480p60 mode GOP. I gave you a link already from David Newman of Cineform AspectHD. If anyone knows the specifics of the cam it is him. I don't know why you have adopted the stance that somehow you can not be wrong, but you are.

Radek Svoboda · June 14th, 2005, 02:37 AM

Ken, let's just wait when 720p60 camera comes out, we'll know sure then. This is not really that big deal, 12 GPO give somewhat better results, that's all. Thanks for the link though. Radek

June 9th, 2005, 08:46 AM	#1
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	When is the new HD1 replacement I heard the new HD1 replacement was to be announced around now, but nothing has come up, anybody know anything? Thanks

June 12th, 2005, 02:56 PM	#6
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Radek -"JVC portion of HDV spec includes 720p60 at 19 Mbps, with GOP 6." Where do you get that info from? I have never seen any info like that. The 480p60 mode of the JVC cams uses a 12GOP, so I don't know how you figure double the rez and half the GOP. Not likely. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

June 12th, 2005, 05:31 PM	#8
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Had a quick search on this forum and found this thread where David Newman of Cineform outlines the GOP's. I would guess JVC's site also should have info as well. The GOP structure is essentialy the same as double the GOP and double the frames works out to the same GOP-per-second either way. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

June 13th, 2005, 02:01 PM	#10
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ghlight=12+gop Well Radek, in this case it does ;>) Here is the link I forgot to include. The GOP structure is common knowledge to those familiar with the cam. All of the specs were talked about inside and out when the cam was new and this forum was blazing. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

June 13th, 2005, 04:31 PM	#12
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"but I could be wrong" Ya, your wrong. "there is no 720p60 on HD1/10." Common knowledge. Who ever said there was? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

June 10th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#3
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	There are a number of cameras that could have been introduced a year or year and half ago, so they have had plenty of time for tweaking. The issue with consumer cameras, is which has the best compromise you can live with, so I am waiting to see what they introduce, even $1000-$1500 in comparison. I am not happy with the interlace stuff on the Sony's. Look forward to better one chip, maybe even another three chip model. If it comes down to $3.5K Pro Sony Single chip, or $3K 3 chip JVC with uncompressed out, then the choice would be interesting. I have heard reports that the 720p has less movement artifacts than 1080i Sony's. As I am interested in uncompressed out, it doesn't matter so much. Thanks

June 11th, 2005, 10:41 AM	#4
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Deinterlace 1080i with best software, get half decent 1080p and excellent 720p. Radek

June 11th, 2005, 11:18 AM	#5
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Still, on friendly terms with local State PRO JVC distributor. I am not totally in favour of de-interlacing, and have other reasons for avoiding interlace. So, will ultimately come down to competition and capturing possibilities. Of course if everybody converted to digital cinema tomorrow, it would matter even less. Still waiting for hands on testing of the component on all models. Wayne.

June 12th, 2005, 04:40 PM	#7
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Ken, Where did you get GOP of 12? I understood JVC's HDV is GOP 6. Resolution is the same at 30p and 60p. Radek

June 13th, 2005, 04:28 AM	#9
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Ken, Just because you double frame rate does not mean you double GOP. I could not find anywhere anything than GOP 6. Radek

June 13th, 2005, 02:30 PM	#11
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Ken, there used to be HDV Organization chart and I'm pretty sure was GOP 6, but I could be wrong. HD1/10 has GOP 12 but only at 480p60; there is no 720p60 on HD1/10. Radek

June 13th, 2005, 09:57 PM	#13
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	http://www.adamwilt.com/HDV/ HDV uses long-GOP MPEG2 for video, with a 6-frame GOP for 720p and 12 to 15-frame GOP for 1080i. Sorry, you're wrong and I never said HD1 is 60p. I'm done, hate repeat myself. Radek

June 13th, 2005, 11:27 PM	#14
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Radek I don't know if it is a language barrier or what, but there seems to be some form of lack of communication here. I don't know what you are pointing out with your link, but I see no info on the 480p60 mode GOP. I gave you a link already from David Newman of Cineform AspectHD. If anyone knows the specifics of the cam it is him. I don't know why you have adopted the stance that somehow you can not be wrong, but you are. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

June 14th, 2005, 02:37 AM	#15
Radek Svoboda Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 500	Ken, let's just wait when 720p60 camera comes out, we'll know sure then. This is not really that big deal, 12 GPO give somewhat better results, that's all. Thanks for the link though. Radek