Would you buy one again? at DVinfo.net

Scott Wilson · March 21st, 2005, 01:14 AM

A question for those who purchased a GR-HD1 or HD10. Would you buy one again today? Overall, how do you feel about the camera?

Graham Hickling · March 21st, 2005, 03:10 AM

There have been a number of HD-1s 2nd hand on EBay that have sold at auction for around $1000, presumably as people trade "up" to the Sony.

If the HD-1 I have broke, I would seriously consider bidding on one of those as a replacement, with a view to trading up to a better progressive model with proper manual controls in a year or so.

But I wouldnt buy another one if I had to pay $2000-ish again.

Scott Wilson · March 21st, 2005, 03:58 AM

I'm looking for a new or refurb unit in the $1000-1500 range. I think that's a very good price considering the build quality and features of this unit. And also consider its only other price/market competitor the HDR-FX1 is nearly $3,500.

Graham Hickling · March 21st, 2005, 08:56 AM

Agreed.

Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening.

Scott Wilson · March 21st, 2005, 03:39 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Graham Hickling : Agreed.

Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening. -->>>

I'm not too picky. The HD1 will suit me fine. I don't plan on doing any pro work with it or anything, just saving some memories.

Christopher C. Murphy · March 21st, 2005, 03:49 PM

Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one.

Scott Wilson · March 21st, 2005, 05:01 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one. -->>>

Any specific reasons why? Or are you just spoiled by the HVR-Z1U?

Heath McKnight · March 21st, 2005, 08:40 PM

I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips).

heath

Scott Wilson · March 22nd, 2005, 01:07 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips).

heath -->>>

Yeah, the DVX100A seems like an amazing camera as is the FX1. I'm just looking for entry level high definition. So the only real choice is the GR-HD1.

Ben Buie · March 22nd, 2005, 01:47 AM

Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all.

We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed.

On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that.

Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly.

Tom Roper · March 22nd, 2005, 02:05 AM

Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1.

Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again.

Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb

Scott Wilson · March 22nd, 2005, 02:08 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Buie : Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all.

We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed.

On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that.

Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly. -->>>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the help!

I'd say 80% of what I'll be shooting is outdoors. And I can live with a little poor indoor performance for the rest. I also find the design of this camera really appealing. I held one in a Good Guys store and unlike all other large cameras, it was comfortable to hold. The rotating grip really seems nice.

I found a refurb unit for $1,549, so I think I'll order it soon.

Scott Wilson · March 22nd, 2005, 02:11 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Roper : Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1.

Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again.

Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb -->>>

I saw your clip before, looks really nice to be compressed.

Did you get a refurb unit or a new one? Please email the retailer where you bought it to debonarion@gmail.com.

Thanks!

Christopher C. Murphy · March 22nd, 2005, 07:11 AM

Scott, I wouldn't buy one for a few reasons:

#1 - I personally didn't like JVC's regional rep., and I'd rather not say why in public. I'll tell you if you email me. Also, the overall response from JVC to the community who bought the cam seemed to be non-existant. It would have been nice to have gotten a firm "no" on firmware upgrades, so we could have more manual control. Although, maybe there way of saying "no" is to say nothing at all for over 2 years? I guess so.

#2 - The lack of manual controls were just to much to bare. After using the PD-150 for years it just made it to difficult to shoot something quickly.

#3 - The image was pretty good when it was shot right...really bad when just trying to "get a shot". Someone in a forum said that the JVC created "high quality VHS" type footage. I'd say that's spot on! I've gone back and looked at footage I've shot and that assessment sums it up for me. Although, the image is definately worth it if you have time to spend babying the cam. I just don't have time on most shoots to baby a video camera like a film camera...who does?? Sure, DP's on film shoots!

#4 - Even though the audio on the HD10U was better than the GR1, well...not by much! You don't have FULL control like other DV cameras (PD150's etc). It's almost there, but just not good enough for serious PAYING work. If you're goofing off, sure it'll work ok..

#5 - I've used Sony products since childhood and they just seem to work right. They might not be the best in the world, but for some reason I feel like their products are made with a "this must work right" attitude. The JVC seemed to be a product that went on the market to "test the waters". These thoughts have been on my mind since I sold my HD10U and bought a HVR-Z1U. My Sony has it all - right out of the gate. It's not perfect, but it's definately worth every single cent I paid. I can't say that about the JVC cam.

Final thoughts - if someone is shooting an indie film I guess the HD10U is still a good cheap option. But, if you are shooting run and gun - I'd either get a standard DV or a Z1U. But, don't get the Z1U if you're not going to be able to tweak footage in post. If you have to shoot, edit and get it out there....get a DV camera like the DVX or Xl2. The JVC is an option for people with a tripod and it's light kit starved, so don't buy it if you plan to shoot in any place that doesn't have LIGHT.

JVC's new camera looks great, but I can only comment on my JVC experience and it was "Fair". It wasn't great or complete suck...it was "Fair". My Sony Z1U experience so far..."Very Good". If it shot nicely with high motion out of the gate??? "Excellent", but I guess we'll get there in the next model....2007 or 2008?? I hope so! In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with Sony...thank you Sony!

Tom Roper · March 22nd, 2005, 01:40 PM

Scott, I would caution you that pro's like Chris live in constant turmoil about their purchases, including the current FX1/Z1U. Today's messy divorce started after yesterday's blissful honeymoon!

In Chris' case, he sold his HD10 for nearly what he paid for it, and made money with it while he had it. You have a chance to pick up an HD1 for 1/2 what he paid. How bad is that?

Look at what he said about his HD10:

"The bottom line from you and I (two owners of HD cameras and TV sets) -- is that HD rocks and that is that.
The HD10u is worth the money - end of story. Let's talk about something else..."

"The truth and facts are that actual owners of the camera that have posted on this site are almost 100% satisfied with their purchase."

"Once again, the word on the street is we're generally happy with the camera and are REALLY excited about the HDV format more than anything else. I'd take note - there are a lot of people on here willing to spend $$ on HDV equipment. The JVC cam is the first step and the next wave will be even more exciting...my personal feeling is kudos to JVC for putting out a camera that flies in the face of the other stuff out there. "

"I really don't like DV footage now...it looks like crap after using my HD cam. It doesn't matter if its not perfect..it's better and that's all that counts to me."

"The pros: It's better than DV - every camera out there. It may not have every button needed or whatever, but overall the word is JVC's camera makes a better image than any DV cam. I own the cam, have used every other one out there and I agree."

"In my view, the debate is over.....the camera produces great images. "

March 21st, 2005, 03:49 PM	#6
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one. __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 21st, 2005, 08:40 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips). heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 22nd, 2005, 01:47 AM	#10
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all. We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed. On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that. Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly. __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

March 22nd, 2005, 07:11 AM	#14
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Scott, I wouldn't buy one for a few reasons: #1 - I personally didn't like JVC's regional rep., and I'd rather not say why in public. I'll tell you if you email me. Also, the overall response from JVC to the community who bought the cam seemed to be non-existant. It would have been nice to have gotten a firm "no" on firmware upgrades, so we could have more manual control. Although, maybe there way of saying "no" is to say nothing at all for over 2 years? I guess so. #2 - The lack of manual controls were just to much to bare. After using the PD-150 for years it just made it to difficult to shoot something quickly. #3 - The image was pretty good when it was shot right...really bad when just trying to "get a shot". Someone in a forum said that the JVC created "high quality VHS" type footage. I'd say that's spot on! I've gone back and looked at footage I've shot and that assessment sums it up for me. Although, the image is definately worth it if you have time to spend babying the cam. I just don't have time on most shoots to baby a video camera like a film camera...who does?? Sure, DP's on film shoots! #4 - Even though the audio on the HD10U was better than the GR1, well...not by much! You don't have FULL control like other DV cameras (PD150's etc). It's almost there, but just not good enough for serious PAYING work. If you're goofing off, sure it'll work ok.. #5 - I've used Sony products since childhood and they just seem to work right. They might not be the best in the world, but for some reason I feel like their products are made with a "this must work right" attitude. The JVC seemed to be a product that went on the market to "test the waters". These thoughts have been on my mind since I sold my HD10U and bought a HVR-Z1U. My Sony has it all - right out of the gate. It's not perfect, but it's definately worth every single cent I paid. I can't say that about the JVC cam. Final thoughts - if someone is shooting an indie film I guess the HD10U is still a good cheap option. But, if you are shooting run and gun - I'd either get a standard DV or a Z1U. But, don't get the Z1U if you're not going to be able to tweak footage in post. If you have to shoot, edit and get it out there....get a DV camera like the DVX or Xl2. The JVC is an option for people with a tripod and it's light kit starved, so don't buy it if you plan to shoot in any place that doesn't have LIGHT. JVC's new camera looks great, but I can only comment on my JVC experience and it was "Fair". It wasn't great or complete suck...it was "Fair". My Sony Z1U experience so far..."Very Good". If it shot nicely with high motion out of the gate??? "Excellent", but I guess we'll get there in the next model....2007 or 2008?? I hope so! In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with Sony...thank you Sony! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 22nd, 2005, 01:40 PM	#15
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Fair and Balanced... Scott, I would caution you that pro's like Chris live in constant turmoil about their purchases, including the current FX1/Z1U. Today's messy divorce started after yesterday's blissful honeymoon! In Chris' case, he sold his HD10 for nearly what he paid for it, and made money with it while he had it. You have a chance to pick up an HD1 for 1/2 what he paid. How bad is that? Look at what he said about his HD10: "The bottom line from you and I (two owners of HD cameras and TV sets) -- is that HD rocks and that is that. The HD10u is worth the money - end of story. Let's talk about something else..." "The truth and facts are that actual owners of the camera that have posted on this site are almost 100% satisfied with their purchase." "Once again, the word on the street is we're generally happy with the camera and are REALLY excited about the HDV format more than anything else. I'd take note - there are a lot of people on here willing to spend $$ on HDV equipment. The JVC cam is the first step and the next wave will be even more exciting...my personal feeling is kudos to JVC for putting out a camera that flies in the face of the other stuff out there. " "I really don't like DV footage now...it looks like crap after using my HD cam. It doesn't matter if its not perfect..it's better and that's all that counts to me." "The pros: It's better than DV - every camera out there. It may not have every button needed or whatever, but overall the word is JVC's camera makes a better image than any DV cam. I own the cam, have used every other one out there and I agree." "In my view, the debate is over.....the camera produces great images. "

March 21st, 2005, 01:14 AM	#1
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	Would you buy one again? A question for those who purchased a GR-HD1 or HD10. Would you buy one again today? Overall, how do you feel about the camera?

March 21st, 2005, 03:10 AM	#2
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	There have been a number of HD-1s 2nd hand on EBay that have sold at auction for around $1000, presumably as people trade "up" to the Sony. If the HD-1 I have broke, I would seriously consider bidding on one of those as a replacement, with a view to trading up to a better progressive model with proper manual controls in a year or so. But I wouldnt buy another one if I had to pay $2000-ish again.

March 21st, 2005, 03:58 AM	#3
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	I'm looking for a new or refurb unit in the $1000-1500 range. I think that's a very good price considering the build quality and features of this unit. And also consider its only other price/market competitor the HDR-FX1 is nearly $3,500.

March 21st, 2005, 08:56 AM	#4
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Agreed. Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening.

March 21st, 2005, 03:39 PM	#5
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	<<<-- Originally posted by Graham Hickling : Agreed. Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening. -->>> I'm not too picky. The HD1 will suit me fine. I don't plan on doing any pro work with it or anything, just saving some memories.

March 21st, 2005, 05:01 PM	#7
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one. -->>> Any specific reasons why? Or are you just spoiled by the HVR-Z1U?

March 22nd, 2005, 01:07 AM	#9
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips). heath -->>> Yeah, the DVX100A seems like an amazing camera as is the FX1. I'm just looking for entry level high definition. So the only real choice is the GR-HD1.

March 22nd, 2005, 02:05 AM	#11
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1. Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again. Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb

March 22nd, 2005, 02:08 AM	#12
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Buie : Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all. We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed. On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that. Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly. -->>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the help! I'd say 80% of what I'll be shooting is outdoors. And I can live with a little poor indoor performance for the rest. I also find the design of this camera really appealing. I held one in a Good Guys store and unlike all other large cameras, it was comfortable to hold. The rotating grip really seems nice. I found a refurb unit for $1,549, so I think I'll order it soon.

March 22nd, 2005, 02:11 AM	#13
Scott Wilson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Millbrae , CA Posts: 29	<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Roper : Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1. Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again. Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb -->>> I saw your clip before, looks really nice to be compressed. Did you get a refurb unit or a new one? Please email the retailer where you bought it to debonarion@gmail.com. Thanks!