No competition for HD-1:( at DVinfo.net

Betsy Moore · July 28th, 2004, 08:09 PM

Does the introduction of the non HD Canon XL2 and the non HD Panasonic 24P update bode ill for any follow-ups/improvements to our lonely JVC miracles? Do you think this time next year there'll still be only JVC's one chip, all auto HD cam for us to "choose" from?

Does anyone think JVC will introduce a 3 chip uncrippled version?

Eric Bilodeau · July 29th, 2004, 05:57 AM

There will be a pro 3 chip camera released by JVC in december, the GY-HD7000U. A camera able to do 720/24p-30p-60p and able to do 1080/60i. Compatible with DV and miniDV. 3 2/3" CMOS sensors (instead of CCDs) of 1080X1920 pixels. SDI output. YPrPb components out BEFORE compression allowing to record HD uncompressed. Compatible with Cinealta and Varicam lenses. See the link below:

http://geocities.com/mammacow3

Barry Green · July 29th, 2004, 11:48 AM

December seems like a very optimistic timeframe. I wouldn't expect to see anything until the middle of next year. And JVC's camera is targeted towards a $20,000 price point.

As to the original question: will JVC's HD1/HD10 be the only camera to "choose" from? Looks like for the next year, probably.

Eric Bilodeau · July 29th, 2004, 12:37 PM

Yes, it is to be released at 20 000 $, still it is better than most HD cameras in terms of pricing.

Anyway. Close competition is not before at least a year, I have to agree with Barry on this.

Luis Caffesse · July 29th, 2004, 01:00 PM

"still it is better than most HD cameras in terms of pricing"

It sounds like a fair price to me. I wouldn't say it is better
than most HD cameras in terms of pricing. Granted, it's cheaper,
but there are very valid reasons for that. Comparing HDV to
DVCProHD or HDCam is sort of an apples to oranges comparison.
Granted they are all High Definition formats, but it is just as valid
to say that a Honda Civic and a Mercedes are both cars. I would
expect one to be priced much higher than the other. If anything,
I think JVC might be pushing it a bit asking for 20K for that
camera.

"Close competition is not before at least a year"

I think you're both probably right on this.
And unfortunately that probably means we won't see any serious
price reductions in HD gear earlier than a year and half from now
once competition between manufacturers has had some time to
take hold.

Barry Green · July 29th, 2004, 06:54 PM

Considering that the SDX900 is a 2/3" standard-def 24P camera with interchangeable lenses...

... and the JVC is a 2/3" high-def 24P camera with interchangeable lenses...

and the SDX is $27,000 and the JVC is $20,000...

the price doesn't seem unreasonable, assuming it performs well.

Luis Caffesse · August 1st, 2004, 10:58 PM

Barry,

I originally thought the JVC was a 1/2" camera, but you are right,
it is 2/3"

In that case, the price does not seem unreasonable.
Although I still don't think HDV will be a viable format, 20K for a
2/3" camera with interchangeable lenses and HD resolution no
longer seems that overpriced.

However, if I were to spend that kind of money, I think I would
opt for the SDX900, sure you have SD resolution, but you have
twice the datarate, twice the color information, uncompressed
audio, and a tried and true workflow for the footage in post.

Still...... 1080 lines for 20K, I can see where a lot of people might
be interested.

Heath McKnight · August 2nd, 2004, 06:37 AM

Look for most new HDV cameras to debut at the 2005 NAB, in around 8.5 months.

heath

Eric Bilodeau · August 2nd, 2004, 06:40 AM

The JVC does have an advantage on the Panasonic: direct, out of the CMOS sensors, YPrPb output for digitising the material before compression with a decent capture card or a deck in HD uncompressed. It seems like a very good option to me!

Heath McKnight · August 2nd, 2004, 05:27 PM

Up and down rez options are nice, too!

heath

Ken Hodson · August 2nd, 2004, 06:47 PM

Uncompressed HD out via component out is a dream we all share ;>)

"but you have twice the datarate, twice the color information"

Twice the data rate would be a little deceiving. They use different compression schemes. As well twice the colour information is again decieving. A high def frame may only be 4:2:0, but it is for a lot more pixels than a SD frame at 4:2:2.

Will Thompson · August 5th, 2004, 11:16 PM

With regard to HDV being a viable format - in way it already is. All cable and satellite HD content is already digitally transmitted with an MPEG-2 TS stream; the exact same format as HDV.

Also, twice the color resolution (4:2:2 vs 4:2:0) doesn't visually translate to twice the noticable color detail. Granted there is a difference, it's still just a compression technique - if the GY-HD7000U really can output YCrCb uncompressed, it's likely that the CMOS sensors will sample at higher than 4:2:0. HDV will only be used as storage and relief from the hardware required to edit uncompressed.

July 28th, 2004, 08:09 PM	#1
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	No competition for HD-1:( Does the introduction of the non HD Canon XL2 and the non HD Panasonic 24P update bode ill for any follow-ups/improvements to our lonely JVC miracles? Do you think this time next year there'll still be only JVC's one chip, all auto HD cam for us to "choose" from? Does anyone think JVC will introduce a 3 chip uncrippled version?

July 29th, 2004, 05:57 AM	#2
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	There will be a pro 3 chip camera released by JVC in december, the GY-HD7000U. A camera able to do 720/24p-30p-60p and able to do 1080/60i. Compatible with DV and miniDV. 3 2/3" CMOS sensors (instead of CCDs) of 1080X1920 pixels. SDI output. YPrPb components out BEFORE compression allowing to record HD uncompressed. Compatible with Cinealta and Varicam lenses. See the link below: http://geocities.com/mammacow3 __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

July 29th, 2004, 12:37 PM	#4
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	Yes, it is to be released at 20 000 $, still it is better than most HD cameras in terms of pricing. Anyway. Close competition is not before at least a year, I have to agree with Barry on this. __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

July 29th, 2004, 01:00 PM	#5
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"still it is better than most HD cameras in terms of pricing" It sounds like a fair price to me. I wouldn't say it is better than most HD cameras in terms of pricing. Granted, it's cheaper, but there are very valid reasons for that. Comparing HDV to DVCProHD or HDCam is sort of an apples to oranges comparison. Granted they are all High Definition formats, but it is just as valid to say that a Honda Civic and a Mercedes are both cars. I would expect one to be priced much higher than the other. If anything, I think JVC might be pushing it a bit asking for 20K for that camera. "Close competition is not before at least a year" I think you're both probably right on this. And unfortunately that probably means we won't see any serious price reductions in HD gear earlier than a year and half from now once competition between manufacturers has had some time to take hold. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

August 1st, 2004, 10:58 PM	#7
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Barry, I originally thought the JVC was a 1/2" camera, but you are right, it is 2/3" In that case, the price does not seem unreasonable. Although I still don't think HDV will be a viable format, 20K for a 2/3" camera with interchangeable lenses and HD resolution no longer seems that overpriced. However, if I were to spend that kind of money, I think I would opt for the SDX900, sure you have SD resolution, but you have twice the datarate, twice the color information, uncompressed audio, and a tried and true workflow for the footage in post. Still...... 1080 lines for 20K, I can see where a lot of people might be interested. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

July 29th, 2004, 11:48 AM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	December seems like a very optimistic timeframe. I wouldn't expect to see anything until the middle of next year. And JVC's camera is targeted towards a $20,000 price point. As to the original question: will JVC's HD1/HD10 be the only camera to "choose" from? Looks like for the next year, probably.

July 29th, 2004, 06:54 PM	#6
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Considering that the SDX900 is a 2/3" standard-def 24P camera with interchangeable lenses... ... and the JVC is a 2/3" high-def 24P camera with interchangeable lenses... and the SDX is $27,000 and the JVC is $20,000... the price doesn't seem unreasonable, assuming it performs well.

August 2nd, 2004, 06:37 AM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Look for most new HDV cameras to debut at the 2005 NAB, in around 8.5 months. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 2nd, 2004, 06:40 AM	#9
Eric Bilodeau Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chicoutimi, Canada Posts: 334	The JVC does have an advantage on the Panasonic: direct, out of the CMOS sensors, YPrPb output for digitising the material before compression with a decent capture card or a deck in HD uncompressed. It seems like a very good option to me! __________________ Eric Bilodeau video SFX,DOP ___________________ http://www.fictis.net info@fictis.net

August 2nd, 2004, 05:27 PM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Up and down rez options are nice, too! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

August 2nd, 2004, 06:47 PM	#11
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Uncompressed HD out via component out is a dream we all share ;>) "but you have twice the datarate, twice the color information" Twice the data rate would be a little deceiving. They use different compression schemes. As well twice the colour information is again decieving. A high def frame may only be 4:2:0, but it is for a lot more pixels than a SD frame at 4:2:2. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

August 5th, 2004, 11:16 PM	#12
Will Thompson Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 75	With regard to HDV being a viable format - in way it already is. All cable and satellite HD content is already digitally transmitted with an MPEG-2 TS stream; the exact same format as HDV. Also, twice the color resolution (4:2:2 vs 4:2:0) doesn't visually translate to twice the noticable color detail. Granted there is a difference, it's still just a compression technique - if the GY-HD7000U really can output YCrCb uncompressed, it's likely that the CMOS sensors will sample at higher than 4:2:0. HDV will only be used as storage and relief from the hardware required to edit uncompressed.