Chroma noise in the final analysis

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> Also, for people saying this camera is only good if you plan to
> output in HD, that is just not true. The truth is that there is no
> easier and cheaper way to output "Blockbuster-style" wide-
> screen DVD's. People with 4:3 TV's get a letter-boxed picture,
> and people with 16:9 TV's get a full-screen picture with better
> resolution than an SD picture that is stretched to fit the screen.

If your target is not HD but a widescreen SD format like anamorphic DVD or PALPlus, I would still suggest that there are several 3-CCD native 16:9 cameras well below $50k which can can also give you "filmic" results if that is what you want, such as the PDX10 and the XL2, the latter also has 24p/30p (NTSC) or 25p (PAL), both have real Time Code and work very easily with all existing NLE products. Sure, when you uprez 16:9 DV to HD someday, you might whish it had been shot in HDV, but if HD is not required for what you are doing, don't leave SD aquisition out of your price quote requests just yet, you can still save some money now for when the real pro HDV hardware comes along ;-)

[Ben Buie]

True, the XL2 does sound nice, but it isn't readily available yet, and it will start at $2,000.00 more than the HD10. However, it will likely overtake the Panasonic DVX100A as the premium 1/3" 3CCD DV camcorder.

The PDX10 is another way to get 16:9 images, but in my opinion the quality doesn't match the HD10. I also think $2,000.00 is a bit pricey for a 1/5" 3CCD SD camera. However, I've seen some stuff shot on the PDX10 that looks very nice, and in the right hands it is probably a great SD camcorder.

As far as costs go, the HD10 adds $0.00 to our production costs. We can edit the HD10 just like DV, and use it in any DV NLE (using ConnectHD). Yes, ConnectHD did add a one-time cost of $500 to our production budget, but that was the extent of it.

To be honest, there is also a business component to this. Since there is so much competition in the DV market, we have chosen to shoot HD only and we advertise our services as such. Like it or not, HD is a reality. Every primary and secondary market in the US has been broadcasting HD for a couple of years now; all 3 networks primetime lineups are all HD now; every major cable and satellite provider offers HD for less than $10/month extra. If nothing else it future proofs your work and your demo-reel, and we are talking about a very imminent future ("the future is now", as they say).

Thus, we will only shoot with the HD10 until another affordable HD camera becomes available (although I'm not holding my breath). If we get a project with a large enough budget we would also consider renting a Varicam.

[Heath McKnight]

Ben,

thanks for bringing us back on subject.

Everyone,

We have a great XL-2 page for more info.

hwm

[David Newman]

Lynne,
It is wrong to consider chroma noise a bug in the JVC camera (attitudes of third party developers to blame other manufactures will not get them anywhere.) I completely understand the nature of the chroma noise, and it is a trade-off JVC made that makes the luma so clean for a single chip sensor. This trade-off effectively delivers a higher apparant resolution without the need for a 3 chip design. Using this knowledge the chroma noise filter for Aspect HD cleans it up color noise very well. It is true a 3 chip design will have less chroma noise, but then we would have nothing now if JVC waited to do that first. I'm liking the JVC camera even more after I recently finished a two camera shoot with it -- the pictures were very clean.

[Farley Scott]

David, any chance that CineForm will add a chroma filter for the ConnectHD product?


Thanks....

[David Newman]

Of course Connect HD can be used with so many applications it is hard to select which apps to create the filter for, although Sony Vegas would be a popular choice. The best move would be to include the chroma noise reduction as part of the capture process. This is the path we hope to take if the market allows and time permits.

[Graham Hickling]

Just to add to Ben Buie's very helpful post ... be aware that it's possible to use VirtualDub filters within avisynth scripts.

'What's the advantage of that?' you may ask. Well, several good encoding applications, for example Mainconcept's Procoder...will load avisynth scripts directly. This means you can, for example, apply the chroma noise filter that Ben recommends at the same time as you encode your footage to DV, or high-def WM9, or whatever.

I use a similar approach so that I can experiment with various gamma settings when I encode for DVDs, without having to mess with the master version of my edited HDV footage.

[Lynne Whelden]

This avisynth scripts you're referring to...could the VirtualDub program be applied to something the Solitaire ediitng appliance generates. In other words, assuming one can output an edited piece via firewire from the Solitaire, could you then input that into or thru another device or program using VirtualDub noise reduction? And finally, input the result back into the Solitaire? (I don't know how much longer I'll be a fan of theirs. I'm starting to lose enthusiasm.)

[Graham Hickling]

Unless you apply the noise reduction during capture, at David proposes, or during the final encode (e.g. to mpeg2 for DVD), then you would probably be adding an extra recompression step to your workflow (I'm assuming the import and export steps from Solataire don't in themselves require recompression?).

So unles you can edit uncompressed, that probably isn't going to be an ideal method...

[Will Thompson]

If you're editing native MPEG-2, then filters will require recompression, but AspectHD, for example would not.

...which reminds me - Attn: David Newman - my production is almost done with over 50 hours of shooting. If you do plan to include chroma noise reduction in a future release of your capture utility, please let me know ASAP before we start capturing footage.

Thanks so much,