Super 16mm or HDV JVC Brazilian feature, any DOP out there?!?

Les Dit · June 24th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Daniel,
I can probably beat that price, or meet it. Output on ArriLaser, I have a hunch the other places hitting a low price point are doing either a CRT recorder, or even worse, a kinescope from a hires monitor. I'm not sure. If you want to see what the 30 to 24 looks like , I can do a DV res test for you too see what it looks like on some motion shots. I'm not distracted by the conversion, but there are the 'film aficionados ' that like to point out the problems. See for yourself, I say ! You decide.
-Les

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : how much will cost for a 35mm print from HDV?

i will have a short movie in HDV with 12 minutes long.

how much this will cost? -->>>

Steve Crisdale · June 25th, 2004, 08:19 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Les Dit : Daniel,
I can probably beat that price, or meet it. Output on ArriLaser, I have a hunch the other places hitting a low price point are doing either a CRT recorder, or even worse, a kinescope from a hires monitor. I'm not sure. If you want to see what the 30 to 24 looks like , I can do a DV res test for you too see what it looks like on some motion shots. I'm not distracted by the conversion, but there are the 'film aficionados ' that like to point out the problems. See for yourself, I say ! You decide.
-Les
-->>>

Les,

I'd like to commend you for having the spirit to give this HDV stuff a go, despite what appears to be the obvious reticence of your colleagues in the Film Transfer industry.
When so many people are 'poo-pooing' this very first attempt by JVC at a low cost HD solution ( I had one guy here tell me it just didn't cut the HD spec. - without seeing what the camera could do - just because it was impossible in his opinion at the price), it's refreshing to find people with the gumption to say "well what if this thing does deliver".
It is to people like yourself that the future success or failure of the HDV format resides.
It may also be damn astute business to be able to provide a service to HD10/HDV users, and get the 'jump' on those of your fellows who'd rather not dip their toes in the HDV pool in case it bites back, 'cause if what you hint at is true....namely that HDV footage from the HD10 is definitely visibly superior to DV when transfered to film; there may be some people who had doubts about feature length productions with this cam jumping on board, who'll need your services!!!

Daniel Moloko · June 25th, 2004, 11:08 AM

les,

how is this process? you get the hard disk drive with the video uncompressed or you do it from the tape source?

anyway, would be great to have a test from HDV source, not dv.

maybe you and your company will enjoy mine short movie made in HDV, and maybe, if you like the ideia, i give you the rights to the short to your company if you do the transfer. and you can sign the short as a producer. is it worth for you?

the short can be showed around the brazil territory in festivals.

anyway, the script is a mix of Roman Polanski`s Repulsion + glen or glenda + the good, the bad and the ugly.

maybe it is too insane?

ciao

Frederic Lumiere · June 26th, 2004, 08:31 AM

Daniel,

I recently met with Kevin Wong a DOP from Canada. He recently completed principal photography on a feature shot with 3 or 4 HD10Us. This is the best footage I've ever seen shot on this camera. He also shot this spec commercial when the camera just came out:
http://www.4lanes.com/reel_523.htm

Kevin also has extensive experience shooting film 16 and 35mm.

I highly recommend him as a DOP should you want to shoot in HD or Film.

With the budget you mention, I would explore shooting with higher end HD cameras such as the Varicam and HDCams.

Here's Kevin's website:
http://www.4lanes.com/

Christopher C. Murphy · June 26th, 2004, 09:30 AM

Frederic,

I REEEEEAAALLLY want to see this film. Any timeframe on when it will be released on DVD or even better in the theater?? (I'd love to point people to this when they say the HD10u isn't HD.)

If you could keep us posted that would be great. I'd buy a DVD of this film in a second...and I'm really curious as to how he did the lighting. I'm most interested in that as I'm sure we all are here.

Murph

Les Dit · June 26th, 2004, 02:07 PM

The filmout process is from a firewire drive. The frames are converted to 2048 Cineons and filmed. When I said DV res for a demo, I was thinking of that for bandwidth reasons. Anyway, for a quick conversion test, I had some high motion HDV of some skate board guys, including some shaky camera and fence detail in the bg. Take a look at the 9 meg 5mbps media 9 file I put here:

http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/skater-at-24.wmv

Tell me your opinion of the artifacts from converting 30fps to 24. In motion, like a real audience would see it. Not paused, movies don't pause. I'm curious what you think. Please don't comment on the crappy hand held camera work, I was just testing the camera out !
-Les

Daniel Moloko · June 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM

les,

everything looks great, even the hand shake. hehe

the motion looks real good to me.

i just want to know if the filmout, he projection in 35mm will look good (i think it will). tell me, the hdv filmout looks like DV? i mean, do you think the audience can tell for sure it was shoot in digital video?

thanks a lot

ciao

Les Dit · June 27th, 2004, 12:50 PM

If the lighting was not clipped too much, like that cloudy day shot of the skaters, I don't think the audience could tell.
On scenes with high contrast, they might be able to, if they knew what to look for.
Most audiences are looking for story and content, not camera flaws. I've been to movies where a good portion of the screen was out of focus a little because of a projection problem, and nobody seemed to care. I did !
-Les

Paul Mogg · June 28th, 2004, 11:32 PM

With that kind of budget I don't know why you're even considering the HD1OU. Rent a Varicam, edit on thee Mac, and save yourself a big headache. I'm a big proponent of the little JVC camera if you don't have any kind of budget, but the hoops you've got to jump through to get it just right should not be underestimated, and you have the money to rent a higher quality HD camera.

Good luck with it.

Daniel Moloko · June 28th, 2004, 11:56 PM

theres a big problem...

i live in brazil. They dont have a HD Varicam Camere here.

oh, yes they have, but it cost more to rent a Varicam than to rent a 35mm camera with stocks.

so...

have you seen Gaspar Nóe Irreversible?

he said that in france is almost impossible to find one Varicam, also.

only the USA dont suffer this kind of thing

ciao

Paul Mogg · June 29th, 2004, 01:42 PM

Sorry, I didn't realize you were in Brazil, (a country I love by the way). Is it possible to rent any other HD cameras there, maybe in Sao Paulo? I'm actually interested for my own purposes.

Thank you

Rob Belics · June 29th, 2004, 02:16 PM

Daniel,

Did you get a chance to call Panavision?

SAO PAULO, BRAZIL
Motion Producoes
Phone: 011-55-11-872-5810
Fax: 011-55-11-864-0833

RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL
Motion Producoes
Phone: 011-55-21-232-7716
Fax: 011-55-21-507-3183

Heath McKnight · June 29th, 2004, 03:29 PM

Paul and Rob,

Good work helping our filmmaking friend down South! That's what makes DV Info Net such a great community: helping out!

heath

Daniel Moloko · June 29th, 2004, 06:54 PM

heath is right, thanks a lot everybody.

i will call motion producoes. but im already expecting a big bugdet to rent this HD CAM.(a photographer whos my friend in Rio said that).

the real problem about doing films in brazil, besides how the hard part that is to get money from goverment its that we have to spend this money only in Brazil. so, if i have 100k, i have to spend everything in brazil.

all the brazilians movies are made with the goverment funds.

but we can arrange a co-production with americans.

but we can pay for Human work - doesnt matter if the person is from america or brazil, but he have to work in here.

its impossible to rent equipament anywhere or edit and film-out outside brazil with my production money.

the only way, as i said, is to have a co-production with a company from outside.

anyway, PAUL Mogg. you said you like brazil. are you a photographer?

ciao

Freya Paget · July 2nd, 2004, 08:00 PM

Hiya! You could try asking on the CML for a D.P.:

http://www.cinematography.net/index.htm

You might even find one in Brazil there!

love

Freya

June 24th, 2004, 10:49 PM	#31
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Re: les Daniel, I can probably beat that price, or meet it. Output on ArriLaser, I have a hunch the other places hitting a low price point are doing either a CRT recorder, or even worse, a kinescope from a hires monitor. I'm not sure. If you want to see what the 30 to 24 looks like , I can do a DV res test for you too see what it looks like on some motion shots. I'm not distracted by the conversion, but there are the 'film aficionados ' that like to point out the problems. See for yourself, I say ! You decide. -Les <<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Moloko : how much will cost for a 35mm print from HDV? i will have a short movie in HDV with 12 minutes long. how much this will cost? -->>>

June 25th, 2004, 08:19 AM	#32
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	Re: Re: les <<<-- Originally posted by Les Dit : Daniel, I can probably beat that price, or meet it. Output on ArriLaser, I have a hunch the other places hitting a low price point are doing either a CRT recorder, or even worse, a kinescope from a hires monitor. I'm not sure. If you want to see what the 30 to 24 looks like , I can do a DV res test for you too see what it looks like on some motion shots. I'm not distracted by the conversion, but there are the 'film aficionados ' that like to point out the problems. See for yourself, I say ! You decide. -Les -->>> Les, I'd like to commend you for having the spirit to give this HDV stuff a go, despite what appears to be the obvious reticence of your colleagues in the Film Transfer industry. When so many people are 'poo-pooing' this very first attempt by JVC at a low cost HD solution ( I had one guy here tell me it just didn't cut the HD spec. - without seeing what the camera could do - just because it was impossible in his opinion at the price), it's refreshing to find people with the gumption to say "well what if this thing does deliver". It is to people like yourself that the future success or failure of the HDV format resides. It may also be damn astute business to be able to provide a service to HD10/HDV users, and get the 'jump' on those of your fellows who'd rather not dip their toes in the HDV pool in case it bites back, 'cause if what you hint at is true....namely that HDV footage from the HD10 is definitely visibly superior to DV when transfered to film; there may be some people who had doubts about feature length productions with this cam jumping on board, who'll need your services!!!

June 25th, 2004, 11:08 AM	#33
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	les, les, how is this process? you get the hard disk drive with the video uncompressed or you do it from the tape source? anyway, would be great to have a test from HDV source, not dv. maybe you and your company will enjoy mine short movie made in HDV, and maybe, if you like the ideia, i give you the rights to the short to your company if you do the transfer. and you can sign the short as a producer. is it worth for you? the short can be showed around the brazil territory in festivals. anyway, the script is a mix of Roman Polanski`s Repulsion + glen or glenda + the good, the bad and the ugly. maybe it is too insane? ciao

June 26th, 2004, 09:30 AM	#35
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Frederic, I REEEEEAAALLLY want to see this film. Any timeframe on when it will be released on DVD or even better in the theater?? (I'd love to point people to this when they say the HD10u isn't HD.) If you could keep us posted that would be great. I'd buy a DVD of this film in a second...and I'm really curious as to how he did the lighting. I'm most interested in that as I'm sure we all are here. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

June 28th, 2004, 11:32 PM	#39
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	With that kind of budget I don't know why you're even considering the HD1OU. Rent a Varicam, edit on thee Mac, and save yourself a big headache. I'm a big proponent of the little JVC camera if you don't have any kind of budget, but the hoops you've got to jump through to get it just right should not be underestimated, and you have the money to rent a higher quality HD camera. Good luck with it. __________________ Paul

June 26th, 2004, 08:31 AM	#34
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	Daniel, I recently met with Kevin Wong a DOP from Canada. He recently completed principal photography on a feature shot with 3 or 4 HD10Us. This is the best footage I've ever seen shot on this camera. He also shot this spec commercial when the camera just came out: http://www.4lanes.com/reel_523.htm Kevin also has extensive experience shooting film 16 and 35mm. I highly recommend him as a DOP should you want to shoot in HD or Film. With the budget you mention, I would explore shooting with higher end HD cameras such as the Varicam and HDCams. Here's Kevin's website: http://www.4lanes.com/

June 26th, 2004, 02:07 PM	#36
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	The filmout process is from a firewire drive. The frames are converted to 2048 Cineons and filmed. When I said DV res for a demo, I was thinking of that for bandwidth reasons. Anyway, for a quick conversion test, I had some high motion HDV of some skate board guys, including some shaky camera and fence detail in the bg. Take a look at the 9 meg 5mbps media 9 file I put here: http://s95439504.onlinehome.us/skater-at-24.wmv Tell me your opinion of the artifacts from converting 30fps to 24. In motion, like a real audience would see it. Not paused, movies don't pause. I'm curious what you think. Please don't comment on the crappy hand held camera work, I was just testing the camera out ! -Les

June 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM	#37
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	les, everything looks great, even the hand shake. hehe the motion looks real good to me. i just want to know if the filmout, he projection in 35mm will look good (i think it will). tell me, the hdv filmout looks like DV? i mean, do you think the audience can tell for sure it was shoot in digital video? thanks a lot ciao

June 27th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#38
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	If the lighting was not clipped too much, like that cloudy day shot of the skaters, I don't think the audience could tell. On scenes with high contrast, they might be able to, if they knew what to look for. Most audiences are looking for story and content, not camera flaws. I've been to movies where a good portion of the screen was out of focus a little because of a projection problem, and nobody seemed to care. I did ! -Les

June 28th, 2004, 11:56 PM	#40
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	a big problem theres a big problem... i live in brazil. They dont have a HD Varicam Camere here. oh, yes they have, but it cost more to rent a Varicam than to rent a 35mm camera with stocks. so... have you seen Gaspar Nóe Irreversible? he said that in france is almost impossible to find one Varicam, also. only the USA dont suffer this kind of thing ciao

June 29th, 2004, 01:42 PM	#41
Paul Mogg Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: San Francisco CA Posts: 386	Sorry, I didn't realize you were in Brazil, (a country I love by the way). Is it possible to rent any other HD cameras there, maybe in Sao Paulo? I'm actually interested for my own purposes. Thank you __________________ Paul

June 29th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#42
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	Daniel, Did you get a chance to call Panavision? SAO PAULO, BRAZIL Motion Producoes Phone: 011-55-11-872-5810 Fax: 011-55-11-864-0833 RIO DE JANEIRO, BRAZIL Motion Producoes Phone: 011-55-21-232-7716 Fax: 011-55-21-507-3183

June 29th, 2004, 03:29 PM	#43
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Paul and Rob, Good work helping our filmmaking friend down South! That's what makes DV Info Net such a great community: helping out! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

June 29th, 2004, 06:54 PM	#44
Daniel Moloko Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Brazil Posts: 124	alright... heath is right, thanks a lot everybody. i will call motion producoes. but im already expecting a big bugdet to rent this HD CAM.(a photographer whos my friend in Rio said that). the real problem about doing films in brazil, besides how the hard part that is to get money from goverment its that we have to spend this money only in Brazil. so, if i have 100k, i have to spend everything in brazil. all the brazilians movies are made with the goverment funds. but we can arrange a co-production with americans. but we can pay for Human work - doesnt matter if the person is from america or brazil, but he have to work in here. its impossible to rent equipament anywhere or edit and film-out outside brazil with my production money. the only way, as i said, is to have a co-production with a company from outside. anyway, PAUL Mogg. you said you like brazil. are you a photographer? ciao

July 2nd, 2004, 08:00 PM	#45
Freya Paget Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: U.K. Posts: 32	Hiya! You could try asking on the CML for a D.P.: http://www.cinematography.net/index.htm You might even find one in Brazil there! love Freya