The Beginning Stages at DVinfo.net

Joshua Stein · May 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM

Hello everyone,
I am fairly new to the world of cinematography and for the past few weeks I have been doing intense research on what type of camera to purchase. Of course the usual suspects have been suggested, GL2, XL-1, 2100 by Sony and the panasonic 100 DVX 100a. Then I stumbled upon you guys over here in the HD world. Now another equation has been added to the mix. My question, should I go right into the world of HD, since from my research this where everything is going to go? Or is the JVC HD10 and the HD world in general too much for a beginner? I hope not I would really love to get the jump on this new technology.

Steve Crisdale · May 29th, 2004, 06:17 PM

As far as I'm concerned, getting into HDV without any pre-conceptions has got to be a good thing!!.....and everyone has to start somewhere with new technologies. If you've been keeping an eye on the HD - JVC HD10 boards you'll see that we've all had to tackle a whole new beast head on...some HD10 owners have handled learning the workarounds etc. better than others, but I reckon it's fair to say that for most HD10 users the experience has been worth it.
At least your research has shown you that HD rather than SD is the broadcast path of video in the future, so if you do want something that can be used right now to produce broadcast quality HD without costing an arm and a leg, there is only one option!!

Bryan Suthard · May 29th, 2004, 09:23 PM

I am strictly a recreational user of the HDV format (i.e. home movies only) and since getting into it with my HD1 camera last Dec., I would not consider going back. While the editing side is definitely more of a challenge simply due to the MPEG2 format and greater resolution demanding greater computer resources (for now...), there are excellent ways to work with it as discussed in this forum. Even for a non-commercial user like me.

I say go for it!

Heath McKnight · May 30th, 2004, 10:51 AM

Joshua,

If you surfed around our board, you would've seen that many people have been doing many comparisons between HDV and various DV cameras. One person, Love Mov, bought HDV and DV and did tests.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=26256

He chose the HDV, but that might not be good for you.

Please do a search here on our site, and you'll have a better idea.

Thanks,

heath

Joshua Stein · May 30th, 2004, 12:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Joshua,

If you surfed around our board, you would've seen that many people have been doing many comparisons between HDV and various DV cameras. One person, Love Mov, bought HDV and DV and did tests.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=26256

He chose the HDV, but that might not be good for you.

Please do a search here on our site, and you'll have a better idea.

Thanks,
heath -->>>

Thanks Heath for the information, actually I had read that thread already. My concern actually is from the view point of someone just getting started in the world of cinematography, and which format to go with. I wondering would the HD format be to much for a beginner. As I stated eariler, just from the few weeks of research that I have done. It appears that HD is where everything is going. I really want to make sure, that I am not going to jump into something that may be over my head. That is why I turned to you guys and to be honest with you, most of the knowledge that I have attained about the HD format, comes from reading your post Heath. From a rookie (newbie) standpoint you guys give great information.

Bryan and Chris thanks alot for the info you have provided me as well.

Heath McKnight · May 30th, 2004, 01:16 PM

Visit www.hdvinfo.net for some reviews by a pro DP who shot a film of mine with the HD10.

Also visit www.dvinfo.net for reviews of DV cameras.

Thanks,

heath

Steve Crisdale · May 31st, 2004, 02:42 AM

Joshua,

The only real reason behind my investing in the HD10 so early on, was not because the camera was relatively cheap for providing the most basic of HD broadcast level MPEG2 transport streams, and that to realize getting my hands on any other HD capable cam would break my budget. It wasn't even that despite it's foibles, I might be able to make some commercials/music vids/promo documentaries etc. that could earn some meagre supplementary income for me from excentric business people willing to blow their dough on an unknown video format.

What really swayed me the HD10's way was the growing groundswell towards HDTV. The hunger for HD material shown by those in Australia who have taken the HDTV plunge is insatiable!!
And as prices on HD receivers, HD STB's and HDVHS decks drop: as they are now......the best place to be when the floodgates open is definitely on top of the wave, not behind it IMHO.

I think you're also building HDV up into some mystical beast that the faint of heart can't conquer!!! It's a pussy format......and you can edit this stuff in any half decent piece of software with your hands tied behind your back.

Besides, how'll you feel if you don't calm your nerves; bite the bullet and just climb on board the HDV train.........and SD dies an inevitable death.

Ben Gurvich · May 31st, 2004, 04:09 AM

Steve, Do you use anything to play back the NTSC signal apart from your computer?

Steve Crisdale · May 31st, 2004, 07:20 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Gurvich : Steve, Do you use anything to play back the NTSC signal apart from your computer? -->>>

I also use the s-video connector to view at 480p resolution.... I purchased my Pana HDTV just before they started selling sets with 30/60 fps capability, making the HD 1080i upconverted 720p signal via component cabling unwatchable, so I can't get the full HD image on anything but my 17" Samsung widescreen TFT monitor - at the moment anyway!

The fact that the new breed of HD products are supporting the major formats, that is PAL and NTSC in playback at the very least, means that for the sort of material shot with the HD10, the 'play-ability' will be high regardless of where one lives.

Ben Gurvich · May 31st, 2004, 07:57 AM

I also use the s-video connector to view at 480p resolution....->>>

Sorry steve didnt quite get that.
Obviously the svideo is going into something NTSC at 480p, but what? the HDTV or another monitor with NTSC enabled

Steve Crisdale · May 31st, 2004, 06:50 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Gurvich :
Sorry steve didnt quite get that.
Obviously the svideo is going into something NTSC at 480p, but what? the HDTV or another monitor with NTSC enabled -->>>

The s-video connection on my HDTV.

The fact that the signal is NTSC is irrelevant, as nearly all recent HDTVs are capable of handling both....no switch is required to enable support modes. The glitch in my case is the frame rate capability. The 480p signal is 30fps so it's visible within the TV's 50fps rating. Unfortunately for me the 1080i upconverted component video signal is 60fps and therefore un-viewable.

The footage captured via the i-link cable (firewire connection) to computer is the cameras native 720p 30fps, which would be viewable on the HDTV if it had a firewire connector. I haven't as yet tried the HDTVs' RGB connector to display my HD stuff via computer, using the HDTV as a second monitor.....but I'll get around to it!!

May 29th, 2004, 04:36 PM	#1
Joshua Stein Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 4	The Beginning Stages Hello everyone, I am fairly new to the world of cinematography and for the past few weeks I have been doing intense research on what type of camera to purchase. Of course the usual suspects have been suggested, GL2, XL-1, 2100 by Sony and the panasonic 100 DVX 100a. Then I stumbled upon you guys over here in the HD world. Now another equation has been added to the mix. My question, should I go right into the world of HD, since from my research this where everything is going to go? Or is the JVC HD10 and the HD world in general too much for a beginner? I hope not I would really love to get the jump on this new technology.

May 30th, 2004, 10:51 AM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Joshua, If you surfed around our board, you would've seen that many people have been doing many comparisons between HDV and various DV cameras. One person, Love Mov, bought HDV and DV and did tests. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=26256 He chose the HDV, but that might not be good for you. Please do a search here on our site, and you'll have a better idea. Thanks, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 30th, 2004, 01:16 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Visit www.hdvinfo.net for some reviews by a pro DP who shot a film of mine with the HD10. Also visit www.dvinfo.net for reviews of DV cameras. Thanks, heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

May 29th, 2004, 06:17 PM	#2
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	As far as I'm concerned, getting into HDV without any pre-conceptions has got to be a good thing!!.....and everyone has to start somewhere with new technologies. If you've been keeping an eye on the HD - JVC HD10 boards you'll see that we've all had to tackle a whole new beast head on...some HD10 owners have handled learning the workarounds etc. better than others, but I reckon it's fair to say that for most HD10 users the experience has been worth it. At least your research has shown you that HD rather than SD is the broadcast path of video in the future, so if you do want something that can be used right now to produce broadcast quality HD without costing an arm and a leg, there is only one option!!

May 29th, 2004, 09:23 PM	#3
Bryan Suthard Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tampa, FL United States Posts: 135	I am strictly a recreational user of the HDV format (i.e. home movies only) and since getting into it with my HD1 camera last Dec., I would not consider going back. While the editing side is definitely more of a challenge simply due to the MPEG2 format and greater resolution demanding greater computer resources (for now...), there are excellent ways to work with it as discussed in this forum. Even for a non-commercial user like me. I say go for it!

May 30th, 2004, 12:50 PM	#5
Joshua Stein Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 4	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Joshua, If you surfed around our board, you would've seen that many people have been doing many comparisons between HDV and various DV cameras. One person, Love Mov, bought HDV and DV and did tests. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=26256 He chose the HDV, but that might not be good for you. Please do a search here on our site, and you'll have a better idea. Thanks, heath -->>> Thanks Heath for the information, actually I had read that thread already. My concern actually is from the view point of someone just getting started in the world of cinematography, and which format to go with. I wondering would the HD format be to much for a beginner. As I stated eariler, just from the few weeks of research that I have done. It appears that HD is where everything is going. I really want to make sure, that I am not going to jump into something that may be over my head. That is why I turned to you guys and to be honest with you, most of the knowledge that I have attained about the HD format, comes from reading your post Heath. From a rookie (newbie) standpoint you guys give great information. Bryan and Chris thanks alot for the info you have provided me as well.

May 31st, 2004, 02:42 AM	#7
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	Joshua, The only real reason behind my investing in the HD10 so early on, was not because the camera was relatively cheap for providing the most basic of HD broadcast level MPEG2 transport streams, and that to realize getting my hands on any other HD capable cam would break my budget. It wasn't even that despite it's foibles, I might be able to make some commercials/music vids/promo documentaries etc. that could earn some meagre supplementary income for me from excentric business people willing to blow their dough on an unknown video format. What really swayed me the HD10's way was the growing groundswell towards HDTV. The hunger for HD material shown by those in Australia who have taken the HDTV plunge is insatiable!! And as prices on HD receivers, HD STB's and HDVHS decks drop: as they are now......the best place to be when the floodgates open is definitely on top of the wave, not behind it IMHO. I think you're also building HDV up into some mystical beast that the faint of heart can't conquer!!! It's a pussy format......and you can edit this stuff in any half decent piece of software with your hands tied behind your back. Besides, how'll you feel if you don't calm your nerves; bite the bullet and just climb on board the HDV train.........and SD dies an inevitable death.

May 31st, 2004, 04:09 AM	#8
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	Steve, Do you use anything to play back the NTSC signal apart from your computer?

May 31st, 2004, 07:20 AM	#9
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Gurvich : Steve, Do you use anything to play back the NTSC signal apart from your computer? -->>> I also use the s-video connector to view at 480p resolution.... I purchased my Pana HDTV just before they started selling sets with 30/60 fps capability, making the HD 1080i upconverted 720p signal via component cabling unwatchable, so I can't get the full HD image on anything but my 17" Samsung widescreen TFT monitor - at the moment anyway! The fact that the new breed of HD products are supporting the major formats, that is PAL and NTSC in playback at the very least, means that for the sort of material shot with the HD10, the 'play-ability' will be high regardless of where one lives.

May 31st, 2004, 07:57 AM	#10
Ben Gurvich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 329	I also use the s-video connector to view at 480p resolution....->>> Sorry steve didnt quite get that. Obviously the svideo is going into something NTSC at 480p, but what? the HDTV or another monitor with NTSC enabled

May 31st, 2004, 06:50 PM	#11
Steve Crisdale Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Katoomba NSW Australia Posts: 635	<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Gurvich : Sorry steve didnt quite get that. Obviously the svideo is going into something NTSC at 480p, but what? the HDTV or another monitor with NTSC enabled -->>> The s-video connection on my HDTV. The fact that the signal is NTSC is irrelevant, as nearly all recent HDTVs are capable of handling both....no switch is required to enable support modes. The glitch in my case is the frame rate capability. The 480p signal is 30fps so it's visible within the TV's 50fps rating. Unfortunately for me the 1080i upconverted component video signal is 60fps and therefore un-viewable. The footage captured via the i-link cable (firewire connection) to computer is the cameras native 720p 30fps, which would be viewable on the HDTV if it had a firewire connector. I haven't as yet tried the HDTVs' RGB connector to display my HD stuff via computer, using the HDTV as a second monitor.....but I'll get around to it!!