Who's making money with their HD10?

Don Brewer · July 6th, 2004, 07:44 AM

I run an Advertising Company that uses
Plasma Ed & HD to display ads. Currently
we are using SanDisk Flash Cards as input
with ads created in photoshop. We do not
use sound or motion at this time. We do
simple to complex stills. They are by no
means as good as HD 1080 x 1920.
How could our ads be created with your
cameras to improve our format and generate
revenues for you?
Thank you for your replies.
D. Brewer

Bill Piedra · July 6th, 2004, 12:01 PM

The JVC JY-HD10 & HD1 both produce MPG Tranport Streams which are 1280x720 pixels - but progressive scan instead of interlaced. If you take your time doing the photography you can make stunning images with these cameras.

I would guess there are 2 ways that you could drive your Plasma HD displays using HD Footage. Method one would be to use a D-VHS VCR to drive the display. You can make the ad using the HD10 camera, then record it to the D-VHS tape. You can fit 420 minutes on one of the longer tapes.

The second way would be to hook the plasma display to a PC and use a player like Windows Media 9 to cycle the ads for the viewers. This method might be more flexible, but alot more expensive. The JVC D-VHS players can be had refurbished for about $280. You would need a PC that has a processor of at least 2.8GHZ to use it to drive the display.

I hope that helps. Please send me an email as I am working on something like this for a corporate customer.

Bill Piedra

Lynne Whelden · July 8th, 2004, 05:33 AM

Does anyone know if the HD10 would be ideal for producing simple football game tapes? I"m talking shooting the game and then dubbing straight off the HDV tape onto VHS for the coaches to review. (I have the opportunity to do that and get paid!) But my question is this--would there be any increase in resolution in the final VHS dub or would it look the same as if I'd shot in DV? Would the wide-screen mode lend itself to the game better than 4:3 format? And how would I make the VHS dub--using the analog output cable from the camcorder or would I need one of the HDV decks (clamshell or 40000)?
Maybe I'd be the first among the group to actually make money...and not have to do any editing in the process!!!

Bill Piedra · July 8th, 2004, 07:13 AM

I don't see any advantage to using the HD10 if you're going to downconvert to low resolution VHS. Reviewing game in HD would be excellent thought.

Also, this camera is not very good in low light AND the fast pans that would be required for a football game would look terrible. I would suggest a nice 3 chip SD camera for that sort of job.

Lynne Whelden · July 8th, 2004, 01:07 PM

So you're saying there would be NO appearance of the image looking sharper in the sense that movies shot on 35mm and dumped to VHS look much better than movies shot in DV and put on VHS? I've already got a DV camera to shoot games. I was hoping shooting in HD would look "better" since you're starting with a better image.

Christopher C. Murphy · July 8th, 2004, 01:10 PM

Lynne, it will look better depending on how you shoot.

If you do lots of fast pans and zooms...probably not a good idea. But, I have found that shooting outdoors with the HD10u producing amazing (yes, truly amazing) footage.

Murph

Lynne Whelden · July 8th, 2004, 06:15 PM

Trust me, I do not pan and zoom no matter what I'm shooting. So how do I go from the HDV tape to VHS directly? I do not edit since they want the tape within hours of the game. Cable, clamshell or deck--which is best to send directly to VHS decks?

Christopher C. Murphy · July 8th, 2004, 06:16 PM

I think you can run a line directly to a VHS deck from the camera. I've yet to try it, but that will allow you to grab a "live to tape" VHS copy.

Murph

Lynne Whelden · July 8th, 2004, 06:25 PM

I'm looking at the JVC "clamshell" VH1 unit and I see where that outputs NTSC in letterbox mode but the cable option is certainly the most economical way to go. When you say outdoor stuff looks really sharp, you're not familiar with how it looks dubbed onto VHS, right? How's come nobody's tried this yet???

Lynne Whelden · July 8th, 2004, 06:27 PM

Built-in digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion allows easy dubbing between digital and analog sources. S-Video, composite and audio connectors function as both inputs and outputs, allowing HD/SD or DV sources to be dubbed from the CU-VH1U to an NTSC deck or analog material dubbed from an NTSC source onto Mini DV in the CU-VH1. Component video outputs allow dubbing from the CU-VH1U to a professional deck.

Ben Buie · July 8th, 2004, 07:19 PM

My roomate and I started a production company based completely around the HD10 back in March. We are in Atlanta. Appropriately, the name of our company is HighlyDef Productions.

We had been talking about doing a video production company for a while, but from a business standpoint I thought there were just way too many video production companies in Atlanta. The idea of being yet another one didn't excite me. I also didn't want to do sales or wedding videos if I didn't have to, I was more interested in doing documentaries, short features, etc.

Then I started reading about the HD10. I have been fascinated with HDTV since its inception, so the idea of being able to shoot HD at DV prices really got me fired up about the video business again. I hate even using the word video, because I think it gives people the idea that your product is "cheap". I prefer the term "digital film" :)

I have to tell you, the negative reaction I got from the local video experts and production companies in Atlanta is what really sold me on the camera. We would demo the camera, be amazed by the results, but they would almost make fun of us for wanting to buy the HD10 and not the PD150 (which is a great SD camera, don't get me wrong). I saw the same reaction 2 or 3 years ago to the new crop of digital projectors that started hurting the high end theater companies. Nobody wanted their $30,000 CRT projectors anymore.

Anyway, we absolutely love the product we get with this camera. We shoot only in HD mode, no exceptions. All of our deliverables have been 16:9 widescreen DVD, letterboxed on a regular TV. We keep the HD masters for future purposes, hopefully for HD DVD. If the client isn't interested in a widescreen or letterboxed product, we tell them we aren't interested. If you think about it, there is just a ton of widescreen content on regular TV. A lot of commercials are widescreen (letterboxed) now. It is amazing how a small thing like the aspect ratio can make your product seem like it cost more to produce, it just gives it a more film like appearance in my opinion.

Anyway, back to the original question, we have gotten about $13,000.00 worth of work since March, coming from two projects (one docu-drama, one video press kit for a pop artist). Luckily this is not my main job, or I would be broke :) However, considering this is only secondary income, and we have spent $0 on marketing or advertising, I think it is fair to say there is a market for the product.

The funny thing is we still don't own this camera. We have rented the camera so far to maintain our profit margin. We do own about $7,000.00 worth of lighting and audio equipment, and we also own an editing workstation with Vegas 4, ConnectHD, Adobe Encore 1.5, Adobe Photoshop, two 17" monitors, etc.

Here are a few tips for people thinking about starting an HD production company of their own:

1) Come up with a budget template in Excel or something similar and stick to it. Make sure to factor in your basic overhead for doing even the smallest job. For example, if your budgets are based on a per day shooting and editing rate, make sure you have a floor in there so you don't get screwed on a job of only 1 day shooting and 1 day of editing.

2) Include a 250GB external harddrive in the budget for every project, no matter what. Storage gets expensive, but at $250 that cost is a negligible piece of most production budgets. Make the client pay for it.

3) Don't be tempted to take every job. If you are being put in a position where you have to take every job because you are desperate for cash, get a "day job" until your production business takes off. If you start slashing your budgets and/or compromising on quality just to get the work, you only hurt yourself and the industry as a whole. The bottom line is that you have to establish a pattern of consistent quality of work and consistent budgets. If you start doing jobs on the cheap, you will likely only attract clients looking for the cheapest game in town.

4) This is basically the same thing as #3, but I'll say it again. Don't be the cheapest game in town. There is no money in being the budget or cheapest option in any market. If you want to be the WalMart of video production, you will likely not survive. WalMart is the exception, not the rule. The video and film production business is a very subjective one, so take advantage of that and strive to be the best, not the cheapest.

5) If possible, have one person who is an expert in the video / film / tv side, and one person who is an expert at the technical and/or business side. For example, my roomate (Ed Hill) has a long history as a camera operator and writer/director in the TV and news business. I have an IT and business background, my main business is an IT Consulting business I started 3 years ago. Ed basically acts as Writer/Director, and I act as Producer. The combination not only splits up the work load, but it helps to have the two different personalities involved in the process.

6) Oh yeah, make sure you get paid in 3rds, i.e., 1/3rd before you start doing anything, 2/3 after shooting, final payment at the end. We actually take our budget and break out the hardware from the labor, and we ask for 100% of the hardware and 33% of the labor up front. So far we have no complaints.

Hope this helps and gives people some encouragement about using the HD10 to make money.

Regards,

Ben

Heath McKnight · July 8th, 2004, 09:01 PM

Great advice, Ben! Best of luck to you and everyone!

heath

Murad Toor · July 31st, 2004, 12:33 AM

I'm going to Turkey on Sunday to shoot a travelogue for a tour group. There will be almost 200 people on the trip. I took Ben's advice and broke up the payments over time. Thanks Ben.

The finished products I'll deliver the group who hired me are:
1. a feature length documentary / overview of the trip itself
2. - 5. lectures by 4 professor-types (it's an educational tour) which may run up to two hours each
6. at least one movie trailer to promote item #1 to be placed inside items #2 - 5 (the lecutres might end up on multiple DVDs instead of 1)

I'll output on standard DVD, likely two DVD-9s (the lectures will be compressed to a pretty small bitrate). I'll save the HD masters for the future in case they'd like to pay me for authoring the HD DVDs next year or whenever.

I've negotiated for royalties on DVD sales. The one thing I didn't negotiate is royalties on public exhibitions. The public exhibitions thing is where having an HD version should make a difference though, so hopefully they'll be happy with the prospect of paying me for projecting the HD version (instead of the SD DVD version they'll have).

The trip is from August 1-15, and afterwards I'm going elsewhere for two weeks. I'll be back September 1st, and upon my return I'll probably start a thread about the HDV experience.

I just got my HD10 about 12 hours ago. I sold my XL1s last week. After playing with the camera a bit tonight I'm very happy with my decision to jump to HDV.

July 8th, 2004, 05:33 AM	#33
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	football tapes Does anyone know if the HD10 would be ideal for producing simple football game tapes? I"m talking shooting the game and then dubbing straight off the HDV tape onto VHS for the coaches to review. (I have the opportunity to do that and get paid!) But my question is this--would there be any increase in resolution in the final VHS dub or would it look the same as if I'd shot in DV? Would the wide-screen mode lend itself to the game better than 4:3 format? And how would I make the VHS dub--using the analog output cable from the camcorder or would I need one of the HDV decks (clamshell or 40000)? Maybe I'd be the first among the group to actually make money...and not have to do any editing in the process!!!

July 8th, 2004, 01:10 PM	#36
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Lynne, it will look better depending on how you shoot. If you do lots of fast pans and zooms...probably not a good idea. But, I have found that shooting outdoors with the HD10u producing amazing (yes, truly amazing) footage. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

July 8th, 2004, 06:15 PM	#37
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	I may be making money!!!! Trust me, I do not pan and zoom no matter what I'm shooting. So how do I go from the HDV tape to VHS directly? I do not edit since they want the tape within hours of the game. Cable, clamshell or deck--which is best to send directly to VHS decks?

July 8th, 2004, 06:16 PM	#38
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I think you can run a line directly to a VHS deck from the camera. I've yet to try it, but that will allow you to grab a "live to tape" VHS copy. Murph __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

July 8th, 2004, 06:27 PM	#40
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	From JVC's web page... Built-in digital-to-analog and analog-to-digital conversion allows easy dubbing between digital and analog sources. S-Video, composite and audio connectors function as both inputs and outputs, allowing HD/SD or DV sources to be dubbed from the CU-VH1U to an NTSC deck or analog material dubbed from an NTSC source onto Mini DV in the CU-VH1. Component video outputs allow dubbing from the CU-VH1U to a professional deck.

July 6th, 2004, 07:44 AM	#31
Don Brewer Tourist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1	I run an Advertising Company that uses Plasma Ed & HD to display ads. Currently we are using SanDisk Flash Cards as input with ads created in photoshop. We do not use sound or motion at this time. We do simple to complex stills. They are by no means as good as HD 1080 x 1920. How could our ads be created with your cameras to improve our format and generate revenues for you? Thank you for your replies. D. Brewer

July 6th, 2004, 12:01 PM	#32
Bill Piedra Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Manchester CT USA Posts: 109	The JVC JY-HD10 & HD1 both produce MPG Tranport Streams which are 1280x720 pixels - but progressive scan instead of interlaced. If you take your time doing the photography you can make stunning images with these cameras. I would guess there are 2 ways that you could drive your Plasma HD displays using HD Footage. Method one would be to use a D-VHS VCR to drive the display. You can make the ad using the HD10 camera, then record it to the D-VHS tape. You can fit 420 minutes on one of the longer tapes. The second way would be to hook the plasma display to a PC and use a player like Windows Media 9 to cycle the ads for the viewers. This method might be more flexible, but alot more expensive. The JVC D-VHS players can be had refurbished for about $280. You would need a PC that has a processor of at least 2.8GHZ to use it to drive the display. I hope that helps. Please send me an email as I am working on something like this for a corporate customer. Bill Piedra

July 8th, 2004, 07:13 AM	#34
Bill Piedra Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Manchester CT USA Posts: 109	I don't see any advantage to using the HD10 if you're going to downconvert to low resolution VHS. Reviewing game in HD would be excellent thought. Also, this camera is not very good in low light AND the fast pans that would be required for a football game would look terrible. I would suggest a nice 3 chip SD camera for that sort of job.

July 8th, 2004, 01:07 PM	#35
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	So you're saying there would be NO appearance of the image looking sharper in the sense that movies shot on 35mm and dumped to VHS look much better than movies shot in DV and put on VHS? I've already got a DV camera to shoot games. I was hoping shooting in HD would look "better" since you're starting with a better image.

July 8th, 2004, 06:25 PM	#39
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	I'm looking at the JVC "clamshell" VH1 unit and I see where that outputs NTSC in letterbox mode but the cable option is certainly the most economical way to go. When you say outdoor stuff looks really sharp, you're not familiar with how it looks dubbed onto VHS, right? How's come nobody's tried this yet???

July 8th, 2004, 07:19 PM	#41
Ben Buie Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 184	My roomate and I started a production company based completely around the HD10 back in March. We are in Atlanta. Appropriately, the name of our company is HighlyDef Productions. We had been talking about doing a video production company for a while, but from a business standpoint I thought there were just way too many video production companies in Atlanta. The idea of being yet another one didn't excite me. I also didn't want to do sales or wedding videos if I didn't have to, I was more interested in doing documentaries, short features, etc. Then I started reading about the HD10. I have been fascinated with HDTV since its inception, so the idea of being able to shoot HD at DV prices really got me fired up about the video business again. I hate even using the word video, because I think it gives people the idea that your product is "cheap". I prefer the term "digital film" :) I have to tell you, the negative reaction I got from the local video experts and production companies in Atlanta is what really sold me on the camera. We would demo the camera, be amazed by the results, but they would almost make fun of us for wanting to buy the HD10 and not the PD150 (which is a great SD camera, don't get me wrong). I saw the same reaction 2 or 3 years ago to the new crop of digital projectors that started hurting the high end theater companies. Nobody wanted their $30,000 CRT projectors anymore. Anyway, we absolutely love the product we get with this camera. We shoot only in HD mode, no exceptions. All of our deliverables have been 16:9 widescreen DVD, letterboxed on a regular TV. We keep the HD masters for future purposes, hopefully for HD DVD. If the client isn't interested in a widescreen or letterboxed product, we tell them we aren't interested. If you think about it, there is just a ton of widescreen content on regular TV. A lot of commercials are widescreen (letterboxed) now. It is amazing how a small thing like the aspect ratio can make your product seem like it cost more to produce, it just gives it a more film like appearance in my opinion. Anyway, back to the original question, we have gotten about $13,000.00 worth of work since March, coming from two projects (one docu-drama, one video press kit for a pop artist). Luckily this is not my main job, or I would be broke :) However, considering this is only secondary income, and we have spent $0 on marketing or advertising, I think it is fair to say there is a market for the product. The funny thing is we still don't own this camera. We have rented the camera so far to maintain our profit margin. We do own about $7,000.00 worth of lighting and audio equipment, and we also own an editing workstation with Vegas 4, ConnectHD, Adobe Encore 1.5, Adobe Photoshop, two 17" monitors, etc. Here are a few tips for people thinking about starting an HD production company of their own: 1) Come up with a budget template in Excel or something similar and stick to it. Make sure to factor in your basic overhead for doing even the smallest job. For example, if your budgets are based on a per day shooting and editing rate, make sure you have a floor in there so you don't get screwed on a job of only 1 day shooting and 1 day of editing. 2) Include a 250GB external harddrive in the budget for every project, no matter what. Storage gets expensive, but at $250 that cost is a negligible piece of most production budgets. Make the client pay for it. 3) Don't be tempted to take every job. If you are being put in a position where you have to take every job because you are desperate for cash, get a "day job" until your production business takes off. If you start slashing your budgets and/or compromising on quality just to get the work, you only hurt yourself and the industry as a whole. The bottom line is that you have to establish a pattern of consistent quality of work and consistent budgets. If you start doing jobs on the cheap, you will likely only attract clients looking for the cheapest game in town. 4) This is basically the same thing as #3, but I'll say it again. Don't be the cheapest game in town. There is no money in being the budget or cheapest option in any market. If you want to be the WalMart of video production, you will likely not survive. WalMart is the exception, not the rule. The video and film production business is a very subjective one, so take advantage of that and strive to be the best, not the cheapest. 5) If possible, have one person who is an expert in the video / film / tv side, and one person who is an expert at the technical and/or business side. For example, my roomate (Ed Hill) has a long history as a camera operator and writer/director in the TV and news business. I have an IT and business background, my main business is an IT Consulting business I started 3 years ago. Ed basically acts as Writer/Director, and I act as Producer. The combination not only splits up the work load, but it helps to have the two different personalities involved in the process. 6) Oh yeah, make sure you get paid in 3rds, i.e., 1/3rd before you start doing anything, 2/3 after shooting, final payment at the end. We actually take our budget and break out the hardware from the labor, and we ask for 100% of the hardware and 33% of the labor up front. So far we have no complaints. Hope this helps and gives people some encouragement about using the HD10 to make money. Regards, Ben __________________ Ben Buie, Producer "On Our Way Up" - Shot Completely in HDV http://www.onourwayup.com HD Articles and Reviews at HDSource! http://hdsource.highlydef.com

July 8th, 2004, 09:01 PM	#42
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Great advice, Ben! Best of luck to you and everyone! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

July 31st, 2004, 12:33 AM	#43
Murad Toor Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 125	making money I'm going to Turkey on Sunday to shoot a travelogue for a tour group. There will be almost 200 people on the trip. I took Ben's advice and broke up the payments over time. Thanks Ben. The finished products I'll deliver the group who hired me are: 1. a feature length documentary / overview of the trip itself 2. - 5. lectures by 4 professor-types (it's an educational tour) which may run up to two hours each 6. at least one movie trailer to promote item #1 to be placed inside items #2 - 5 (the lecutres might end up on multiple DVDs instead of 1) I'll output on standard DVD, likely two DVD-9s (the lectures will be compressed to a pretty small bitrate). I'll save the HD masters for the future in case they'd like to pay me for authoring the HD DVDs next year or whenever. I've negotiated for royalties on DVD sales. The one thing I didn't negotiate is royalties on public exhibitions. The public exhibitions thing is where having an HD version should make a difference though, so hopefully they'll be happy with the prospect of paying me for projecting the HD version (instead of the SD DVD version they'll have). The trip is from August 1-15, and afterwards I'm going elsewhere for two weeks. I'll be back September 1st, and upon my return I'll probably start a thread about the HDV experience. I just got my HD10 about 12 hours ago. I sold my XL1s last week. After playing with the camera a bit tonight I'm very happy with my decision to jump to HDV.