Confused at DVinfo.net

Gabor Lacza · April 21st, 2004, 12:16 PM

Hello Everybody,
I have been posting some questions and looking for help here on the forum deciding which camera to buy.Lot of people told me to wait until the NAB to see what is happening...since not too much is happening right now in the HDV world I am still here without a camera.And I have a big decesion to make and I need some help.JVC HD10U or Panasonic DVX-100 (A) ???? Cannot decide...
I really like the JVC for the extra resolution but this is the only positive things I can come up on the side of the JVC cam....However on the other side is 3chip,plenty manual control,24P....but SD....!
I am a beginner but studying and would like to make travel films and documentaries for now...I like the film look and not much a fun of the video lookwhich DVX would be useful becuse I saw nice film look images..I didnt see too good looking JVC images so far.
Will the DVX be enough in term of resolution for what I am looking for ??? If needed I am ready to buy matte box,filters anythings i can imprrove my images...I am planning to start on the Caribbean this summer for a documentary and than in the Fall in Venice,Italy..
Any help and suggestion is welcome...anything ....I am ready to buy but which one ...I have no idea...!!!
Thanks
Gabor Lacza

Heath McKnight · April 21st, 2004, 04:26 PM

This is a common question, here's an answer:

If you can wait, wait. If you need to buy now, buy now. A better camera doesn't always equate a better videographer.

And buy what you can afford.

heath

Alex Raskin · April 21st, 2004, 05:51 PM

DVX100: 4:3, or lose resolution even further and impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter to achieve 16:9 image ratio.

HD10: native 16:9 image ratio.

Gabor Lacza · April 21st, 2004, 08:58 PM

Heath,
thanks for your reply...I can afford any of the 2...but which one ...that i dont know...

Alex,
what do you mean impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter ???
So for only the 16:9 JVC is better you say ???
Gabor

Alex Raskin · April 21st, 2004, 09:31 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza :
Alex,
what do you mean impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter ??? -->>>

Can't zoom all the way through like with the orginal cam's lens, for one.

Heath McKnight · April 21st, 2004, 10:12 PM

I hate to say this, but the DVX100A may help you out more. Editing with HDV is still tricky, at least for Apple users.

But if you want real good quality, try the HD10.

Read this review by pro DP Jon Fordham. And this one, too. He uses the DVX100A all the time, and shot stuff with the HD10 with me.

heath

Gabor Lacza · April 22nd, 2004, 08:03 AM

Well I will read thorugh this ....I read it once but now I will read it again hopefully it might help me to make a decesion.But if I remember well he wasnt a fan of the JVC..

Heath McKnight · April 22nd, 2004, 08:14 AM

There are many pros and cons to the HD10, and one of the biggest cons is chroma noise. The biggest pro is the image quality! Don't ever forget that, because image is everything. But so is your skill as a videographer!

heath

Gabor Lacza · April 22nd, 2004, 11:45 AM

Well after reading through all that I am more confused now than I ever was..hahahah....Jon didnt liked the camera that much that is for sure as he stated that for 99.9% of video acqusition he dont recommend the camera.But many other do like it...

Heath McKnight · April 22nd, 2004, 12:14 PM

Jon and I do admit the quality is nice, but we'd like some things to change on the camera. Think about it like this, consider all thoughts:

HD10: Great image vs. chroma noise (more prevalent in low lights) vs. not-so-manual controls.

DVX100A: Good image and manual controls plus 24P vs. not HD.

That's what I recommend; it is then up to YOU to decide the camera that is right for you. I'd also try and contact a dealer to set up a test.

heath

Les Dit · April 22nd, 2004, 01:18 PM

Here is how to figure out what to get:

Ask yourself: What is going to be viewing mode of your video?
How is it going to be shown?
DVD ? Film ? Home computer playback ? Digital projection ?

Only get the JVC if you are doing digital higher definition playback, or computer playback, or home HDV playback.
If you are making a DVD , you don't need the JVC.
If you are going out to film, it's a toss up. Personally I'd do the JVC for film as I like what it looks like converted to 24, I don't like fuzzy films.

So what is your stuff for? That will help you choose the camera. And remember, it's not the camera. It's the filmmaker.
-Les

Heath McKnight · April 22nd, 2004, 01:21 PM

Right on, Les, though I'd argue, as would HDV JumpStart Training producer Darren Kelly, that acquisition for a DVD can use the HD10, or any high quality, low cost camera.

heath

Gabor Lacza · April 22nd, 2004, 07:28 PM

Thanks guys really for all the help and suggestions so far...
Les,
I would like it to be shown on different medium.I have HD projection in my house where i can show it in native HD but I would also like to make a DVD out of staff I film so i am sure it will be watched on tv as well.The reason I am falling for the DVX right now is the film look as 24p and the reason I am falling for the JVC is HD...I am planning to shoot travel videos and documentaries .At travel videos the HD would be better but I dont like that sharp video look usual 60i cameras give.I dont know how 30p would be better but I saw 24p DVX looked really filmic...
Also I saw some nice pictures of DVX with some nice short dof where you can play with the focus a bit where at JVC you have no control of it...
Here is where I stand right now....I have around $7k for the "package"...I just need to decide which package..

Gabor Lacza · April 23rd, 2004, 12:14 PM

Can you achieve some good "film look" with the JVC or it will be always that strong HD look ???

Les Dit · April 23rd, 2004, 12:56 PM

With the shutter speed set slow, the 30 fps frames look a lot like film. The hardest thing to get is the short depth of field that film cameras usually exploit. Even adding a lot of ND to the lens does not seem to get much of that, but I don't think that's different than other video cameras.

April 21st, 2004, 12:16 PM	#1
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Confused Hello Everybody, I have been posting some questions and looking for help here on the forum deciding which camera to buy.Lot of people told me to wait until the NAB to see what is happening...since not too much is happening right now in the HDV world I am still here without a camera.And I have a big decesion to make and I need some help.JVC HD10U or Panasonic DVX-100 (A) ???? Cannot decide... I really like the JVC for the extra resolution but this is the only positive things I can come up on the side of the JVC cam....However on the other side is 3chip,plenty manual control,24P....but SD....! I am a beginner but studying and would like to make travel films and documentaries for now...I like the film look and not much a fun of the video lookwhich DVX would be useful becuse I saw nice film look images..I didnt see too good looking JVC images so far. Will the DVX be enough in term of resolution for what I am looking for ??? If needed I am ready to buy matte box,filters anythings i can imprrove my images...I am planning to start on the Caribbean this summer for a documentary and than in the Fall in Venice,Italy.. Any help and suggestion is welcome...anything ....I am ready to buy but which one ...I have no idea...!!! Thanks Gabor Lacza

April 21st, 2004, 04:26 PM	#2
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	This is a common question, here's an answer: If you can wait, wait. If you need to buy now, buy now. A better camera doesn't always equate a better videographer. And buy what you can afford. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 21st, 2004, 08:58 PM	#4
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Yes but... Heath, thanks for your reply...I can afford any of the 2...but which one ...that i dont know... Alex, what do you mean impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter ??? So for only the 16:9 JVC is better you say ??? Gabor

April 21st, 2004, 09:31 PM	#5
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Re: Yes but... <<<-- Originally posted by Gabor Lacza : Alex, what do you mean impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter ??? -->>> Can't zoom all the way through like with the orginal cam's lens, for one.

April 21st, 2004, 10:12 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I hate to say this, but the DVX100A may help you out more. Editing with HDV is still tricky, at least for Apple users. But if you want real good quality, try the HD10. Read this review by pro DP Jon Fordham. And this one, too. He uses the DVX100A all the time, and shot stuff with the HD10 with me. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 21st, 2004, 05:51 PM	#3
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	DVX100: 4:3, or lose resolution even further and impose more restrictions by using an anamorphic adapter to achieve 16:9 image ratio. HD10: native 16:9 image ratio.

April 22nd, 2004, 08:03 AM	#7
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Ok... Well I will read thorugh this ....I read it once but now I will read it again hopefully it might help me to make a decesion.But if I remember well he wasnt a fan of the JVC..

April 22nd, 2004, 08:14 AM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	There are many pros and cons to the HD10, and one of the biggest cons is chroma noise. The biggest pro is the image quality! Don't ever forget that, because image is everything. But so is your skill as a videographer! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 22nd, 2004, 11:45 AM	#9
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Well Well after reading through all that I am more confused now than I ever was..hahahah....Jon didnt liked the camera that much that is for sure as he stated that for 99.9% of video acqusition he dont recommend the camera.But many other do like it...

April 22nd, 2004, 12:14 PM	#10
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Jon and I do admit the quality is nice, but we'd like some things to change on the camera. Think about it like this, consider all thoughts: HD10: Great image vs. chroma noise (more prevalent in low lights) vs. not-so-manual controls. DVX100A: Good image and manual controls plus 24P vs. not HD. That's what I recommend; it is then up to YOU to decide the camera that is right for you. I'd also try and contact a dealer to set up a test. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 22nd, 2004, 01:18 PM	#11
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	Here is how to figure out what to get: Ask yourself: What is going to be viewing mode of your video? How is it going to be shown? DVD ? Film ? Home computer playback ? Digital projection ? Only get the JVC if you are doing digital higher definition playback, or computer playback, or home HDV playback. If you are making a DVD , you don't need the JVC. If you are going out to film, it's a toss up. Personally I'd do the JVC for film as I like what it looks like converted to 24, I don't like fuzzy films. So what is your stuff for? That will help you choose the camera. And remember, it's not the camera. It's the filmmaker. -Les

April 22nd, 2004, 01:21 PM	#12
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Right on, Les, though I'd argue, as would HDV JumpStart Training producer Darren Kelly, that acquisition for a DVD can use the HD10, or any high quality, low cost camera. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

April 22nd, 2004, 07:28 PM	#13
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	Thanks Thanks guys really for all the help and suggestions so far... Les, I would like it to be shown on different medium.I have HD projection in my house where i can show it in native HD but I would also like to make a DVD out of staff I film so i am sure it will be watched on tv as well.The reason I am falling for the DVX right now is the film look as 24p and the reason I am falling for the JVC is HD...I am planning to shoot travel videos and documentaries .At travel videos the HD would be better but I dont like that sharp video look usual 60i cameras give.I dont know how 30p would be better but I saw 24p DVX looked really filmic... Also I saw some nice pictures of DVX with some nice short dof where you can play with the focus a bit where at JVC you have no control of it... Here is where I stand right now....I have around $7k for the "package"...I just need to decide which package..

April 23rd, 2004, 12:14 PM	#14
Gabor Lacza Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Budapest , Hungary Posts: 194	One more thing... Can you achieve some good "film look" with the JVC or it will be always that strong HD look ???

April 23rd, 2004, 12:56 PM	#15
Les Dit Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Southern Cal-ee-for-Ni-ya Posts: 608	With the shutter speed set slow, the 30 fps frames look a lot like film. The hardest thing to get is the short depth of field that film cameras usually exploit. Even adding a lot of ND to the lens does not seem to get much of that, but I don't think that's different than other video cameras.